The Unseen: Jerome Elam on Breaking the Silence Around Boys, Trauma, and Trafficking (Part 2)

What happens when the victims no one talks about begin to speak?

In Part 2 of this raw and revealing conversation on Shobukai Shift, Mary Schaub continues her dialogue with Jerome Elam—President and CEO of the Trafficking in America Task Force, U.S. Marine veteran, and child trafficking survivor. This episode turns toward the often-ignored experiences of boys who are trafficked, and the profound silence they’re forced to endure. Jerome opens up about the toxic myths surrounding masculinity, the societal blind spots that fail boys and men, and how easy access to online exploitation and misinformation is creating a generation disconnected from real connection, love, and healing.  

⚠️ Content Warning: This episode contains discussion of child sexual abuse, trafficking, suicide, and trauma. Listener discretion is advised.

🔑 Key Takeaways:

• Boys are trafficked too—and they’re often uncounted, unseen, and silenced
• Male survivors face unique stigma, which delays healing and increases risk of suicide, addiction, and isolation
• Pornography and social media are distorting relationships and rewiring expectations for intimacy—especially in young men
• Every act of kindness can become a lifeline. Vulnerability is a bridge
• Advocacy is healing. When survivors speak, they reclaim what was taken

🎤 Compelling Quotes:

“This isn’t a gender issue. It’s a human issue.” – Jerome Elam

“Many male survivors never even realize they were trafficked—until they hear someone else’s story.” – Jerome Elam

“When you reclaim your story, it stops being the thing that breaks you—and becomes the thing that fuels you.” – Mary Schaub

“The most beautiful sound? A survivor breaking their silence after years of silence.” – Jerome Elam

“What happened to me will always be part of me—but it no longer defines me.” – Jerome Elam

🔍 Keywords for SEO & Podcast Platforms:

Male trafficking survivor, boys and human trafficking, male sexual abuse, child exploitation, human trafficking awareness, trauma-informed podcast, trauma recovery, trauma therapy, pornography addiction, mental health for men, survivor stories, healing masculinity, Shobukai Shift, Mary Schaub, healthy relationship education, social media and trauma, suicide prevention

#ShobukaiShift #JeromeElam #MaleSurvivorsMatter #TraumaInformedLeadership #HumanTraffickingAwareness #SurvivorAdvocate #BreakingTheSilence #BoySurvivors #VulnerabilityIsStrength #TraumaHealing #PodcastOnTrauma 

🔗Links 

• National Center for Missing and Exploited Children: 1-800-THE-LOST (1-800-843-5678
• Trafficking in America Task Force
• Clown and the Candyman documentary
• Safe Harbor Laws 

Disclaimer:

***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.***

Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub. Mixing Engineer: Dylan Yauch

Contact: Tell us how your transformation is going. Email us at Shobukai_Shift@mschaubadvisory.com or leave us a voicemail at ‪(631) 371-3240‬ and we may play it on a future episode.

Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

** Shobukai Shift is a MSA Production **

Chapters

• 0:00 Jerome Elam: Part 2
• 1:36 The Stigma of Male Victims: A Call for Awareness
• 5:59 How Pornography is Negatively Impacted Boys and Men
• 9:19 The Lessening of Empathy in Social Media's Shadow
• 11:44 Healing Through Advocacy: Personal Transformation
• 13:06 Words of Encouragement for Survivors
• 20:19 The Protagonist Questionnaire

Transcript

Mary Schaub (01:36)

we talk a lot about, girls being trafficked, and there are, and there's lots of numbers, but you've been at the forefront of bringing boys into the conversation because of your experience.

Boys, as you said at the top, they suffer in silence. They're often uncounted, unseen, unsupported. There's stigma, shame there, and potentially even confusion. I just saw a news story pop up, and I think it was in Florida where a teacher actually was involved in a student and ended up bearing that student's child, and she went to prison. But I could imagine that there's a very different bias for little girls than

than boys and what should we know about what's different about boys experience that society still isn't grasping? We've come a long way, but maybe there's still more work to do.

Jerome Elam (02:24)

That's a great question, you know, I think what, unfortunately, what we see historically is that when you have a boy being molested by an older woman, it's seen as a rite of passage. ⁓ And it's not seen as a crime, which it is. So I think we need to reframe how we view this whole thing, that anybody who's under the age of 18 that's being taken advantage of by an adult, you know, they're being molested and groomed.

Mary Schaub (02:35)

Yeah.

Jerome Elam (02:49)

with boys again, it's very difficult. again, it's about educating law enforcement and judges and prosecutors as to how young boys can be just as easily as girls be taken advantage of. And again,

The numbers we have through the five studies that are out there is that roughly about 35 % of those who are out there being trafficker boys. But again, those barriers just really keep them from speaking out, keep them silent, and that's why I'm really out to kind of break that traffickers know that boys

aren't gonna be easily identified. So they've started trafficking them more. we just gotta make sure that we have the tools and law enforcement has the tools recognized these young boys who are being trafficked. in the UK, boys were going for 5,000 a night. So the abuse is definitely out there. It's a matter of pulling back the curtain.

on this and what's happening and getting more young boys to speak about it because what happens in the minds of young boys who are being molested in traffic is that they just try to rationalize away what's happened to them. they don't feel like they can talk about it. They feel too scared or ashamed and then end up with, astronomical rates of alcoholism, drug abuse, suicide.

So it's all about breaking that silence, understanding that this isn't a gender problem, this is a human problem. And that we're all in this fight together

Mary Schaub (04:16)

I'm really glad you said that. I think I've spoken before here, some of the statistics around boys and men struggling in general. ⁓ And there's been a number of studies now on this. You've mentioned the suicide rate for ⁓ boys with trauma, but even suicide rates for just men in general are three to four times higher for men. And then what's called deaths of despair, which includes suicide, but also drug overdose and alcohol-related disease.

has been rising sharply, particularly around middle-aged white men without college degrees. There's evidence that boys are underperforming academically at every level and that now women are earning nearly 60 % of the college degrees. Many boys struggle with ADHD, which leads to school discipline and disengagement and being sort of pigeonholed as the problem kid. The number of men in their prime, which is considered 25 to 54, are not working.

employed men in that age bracket is at a 70 year low and fewer men are marrying. Many report they're not even dating and marriage has long been associated with male well-being and stability and that's becoming less accessible for many men, especially those struggling economically. So Jerome, I don't want to conflate these two topics. They're separate, but I think the common thread is that boys and men are struggling and we need to take gender out of it. We need to

We need to come together, we need to stop leaving people behind and we all need to care about this because it affects our health as a society. I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts about ⁓ some of the statistics in general that I've just cited.

Jerome Elam (05:59)

Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, one of the things that we find is that pornography is a big driver in a lot of these cases. What you have, especially with young men, is them getting addicted or watching a lot of porn. And then when they attempt a relationship, because the expectations are so different from watching the porn, they tend to get into failed relationships. So one of the things that we do is we go into schools and we do what's called healthy relationship training.

we're going to talk about what's acceptable. Well, this all started because, as you can probably imagine, when we tried to go into schools and talk about sex trafficking, from the moment I heard sex, they were like, no. So we started doing healthy relationship training. So we talked about what should you expect in a relationship? Also, what should your family environment be like? We get so many disclosures from kids who

Mary Schaub (06:27)

wow.

Yeah.

Jerome Elam (06:54)

don't really understand what's happening to them is wrong. But when you go in and lay it out for them and say, you shouldn't be molested, they really begin to disclose what's going on. So it's about, getting them to understand, how to pursue a relationship in a healthy way. redefining, how men approach women and make sure they do it with respect.

and lay a foundation for relationship and not go in thinking that this is just gonna be like it was in the porn video because it's not. So again, it's about education and awareness and getting society to shift away from those narratives that just promote sex and violence and really don't focus on

the incredible benefits of marriage and a relationship with someone who you love and care about very deeply and how that can really transcend anything else that you could ever imagine. So we have to giving people role models who emphasize the fact that being a good father is

is one of the greatest things in the world. for me, being a father is the most important job I could ever have,

we can't keep letting young men, herded down this particular path where there's this endless pursuit of fulfillment they can never achieve

Mary Schaub (08:13)

I hear you fighting this on two fronts. You're fighting this through legislation.

there is damaging effects to what has now become unfettered access to content without any context or training or teaching as you're describing. And also there's this dopamine, there's this other effect that they're getting that they don't understand. It's short circuiting their desire for connection and love and understanding and

and social connection and they just want this hit of dopamine in gaming or in pornography as you're saying. Dr. Jonathan Haidt has written a lot about it. But as we start to see an entire generation that has grown up with this being the norm in this environment.

What does that look like at 45, 50, 60 years old? And it feels like it's a path toward loneliness and desperation, which might then bring up other sorts of coping mechanisms and behaviors which will be harmful to themselves and maybe others. So this behooves all of us to care about, to help create a healthy next generation.

Jerome Elam (09:19)

And it's true, and we built, there's been studies done that, being on social media just strips the compassion away from people. That people are more prone to be, cruel and uncaring behind an avatar than they are to someone's face. And I always say that we have to really take steps to make sure that we don't lose, the ability to interpret body language, the ability to talk to somebody face to face.

and really express ourselves in a constructive way that's very civil and productive. And don't get so caught up in social media that you lose touch with reality. Because I think it really, like you say, is creating a generation that's going to really have a lot of issues they struggle with as they get older.

we've got to begin to shift that narrative back to inter-personal relations, how to interact with people and talk to them

we've really got to begin to encourage young people to communicate and talk about issues that concern them. I always say as a parent, any dialogue is good dialogue. talk to your kids about what interests them, make sure that they understand you care about them, that they matter to you.

Because it's when we don't engage them on their level that we get that disconnect. And we know from the research that the majority of the kids who are groomed victimized online are ones that feel alienated, disconnected from their peers, feel like they're misunderstood. And that predator trafficker comes in and says, yeah, I know, your parents suck. I know what you mean.

just make that effort to put the smartphone down for five minutes and talk to your kids. That's incredibly important,

Mary Schaub (10:50)

Yeah.

Well, and maybe even trying to reach them where they are. I know it's so funny now, people don't talk like you and I are talking. So I'll have a conversation with someone who's younger and they have to use their phone. Like they have supporting audio visual for our conversation. Like we'll be talking, they're like, hold on, let me show you this YouTube. I know teachers have started to adapt their curriculum and their teaching style because it's just different now. And so I have a friend of mine who,

has four young boys and some of them are struggling in school and having some discipline problems. And I was really moved by the show, Adolescents on Netflix. You probably have heard about it. Really very intense, very profound, very thought provoking. And I said, you should watch this, cause you have boy, you should watch this. And she did. And then she said, well, he's been suspended. And I said, did he watch, did your son watch it?

Jerome Elam (11:30)

Yeah.

Mary Schaub (11:44)

She said, no. I said, well, what would happen if you watched it together and then you asked him questions? Because that one school scene, I thought, is this what school is like now? And I'm sure that many parents don't know. And so maybe try to meet them where they are and see if you can somehow access some of that curiosity. I think, Jerome, We know what it's like

they are hungering for connection. they're at a certain place where they don't know how to get it But you can reach them. Don't give up

Jerome Elam (12:11)

Yeah, and I think maybe you as well as I, I I was shocked to discover that kids were just going overboard with interest to watch people on YouTube playing games. Like it's a big thing for teenagers to watch other people play games. And so one of the things that I did as a parent is I made sure I vetted these YouTubers they were watching and make sure that they were acceptable in their behavior. But I also made sure that I watched the videos with my kids.

Mary Schaub (12:24)

Yeah.

Jerome Elam (12:40)

and talk to them about the videos I'm a Luddite, I was born before the internet. ⁓ So I have to keep up, but I really try and educate myself about what games they like, what people they like, and really talk about these topics with them. Because again, it's a matter of making them understand they matter to you. And your interest in their life, and again, like you said so eloquently,

Mary Schaub (12:44)

Yeah.

Jerome Elam (13:05)

Talk to them on their level.

Mary Schaub (13:07)

And back to our vulnerability, my stepdaughter is super, super smart. She's really good with tech. I used to be good at tech when I was younger and now it's totally different. sometimes I'll be quite vulnerable and say like, you know, I heard that emojis mean different things. Actually, I got it from that show, Adolescence. Hey, what's the code?

It's okay to be a little vulnerable, I think, as an older person and invite them to bring you into their world a little bit. I think that they like, as we all did, having this secret language and I think they might be more prone to let you in if you express sort of humble curiosity about it.

Jerome Elam (13:43)

No,

no. you know, Mary, that's actually the Rosetta Stone because what I tell people, especially when you're talking about victims of human trafficking, I tell people, say, when you look at a victim of human trafficking, find something of yourself that you see in them. share your own vulnerability first, because when you bridge that trust, you can really open up the door for them to talk about it.

it really does establish that kind of rapport that you need to hopefully get the more concerning things to come out when they talk to you.

Mary Schaub (14:42)

I wanna share another quote from you. You've said, I stand here today, not only as a survivor, but as a living testament that there is always hope and a light inside all of us that no one can extinguish. I love that. I believe that part of healing and finding meaning and purpose is to create what you once needed and to birth something that's missing from the world.

It's what I'm personally trying to do here with this podcast and my trauma-informed coaching practice. Your journey of personal healing seems to be entwined with your advocacy work and you've used your painful experiences to help others. Is it fair to say that the process of focusing on helping others has also helped you with your own personal healing?

Jerome Elam (15:30)

Absolutely so, and I was gonna say earlier, one of the things that I always tell people is that when I do podcasts like this or I speak public or whatever, every time I do that, it's me shouting at top of my lungs to those who exploited, raped, and trafficked me, they couldn't break my spirit, that I survived and I thrived, and I have a life that I could never have imagined that they will never take anything away from me again.

one of the things that you probably know, which is just heartbreaking is that the majority of victims of human trafficking don't know they were trafficked. When you go and talk to a victim and say, you trapped? don't know what you're talking about. So you have to go and speak to in a language I understand, like were you being forced through something you didn't want to, were you hurt? Because there are so many instances.

globally, well, I'll talk about what happened to me. People will say, until I heard you speak, I didn't realize I was being trafficked. Because number one is that minimization, but it's also that lack of education, around the world about what trafficking is.

I'm grateful that I can kind of be out there talking about my story so people can really relate to their own trauma and not minimize, but own it and begin to recover from it.

Mary Schaub (16:46)

That's wonderful. There's a quote from Leonard Cohen that says, there's a crack, a crack in everything and that's how the light gets in. And I think as trauma survivors, when we start to transcend what happened to us and use it as strength and fuel, as you're describing having done, it becomes our superpower. And...

I mean, everything about you, Jerome, you're an incredible testament to this kind of powerful transformation. again, just another quote from you, I've struggled against many things in my life and somehow I found a way to survive. I share my experiences in the hope that those suffering in silence will find the courage to speak out and share their voices. What are just a couple words for people who have had experiences that

are holding them back, what are some words that you use to inspire folks?

Jerome Elam (17:39)

I would say number one, it's not your fault. And number two, you deserve better and you are worthy of love. And I always say that you matter, your story matters, and your life matters always. And there's no ifs, ands, or buts. And that you're deserving of all the happiness and love the world has to give you. Because again, we're so conditioned to feel worthless and not have value.

in my own personal journey, I like to say that what happened to me as a child will always be a part of me, but will no longer define me. It doesn't define me at all, period. Because again, those of us, you know, like you, when you, these things are always gonna be there, but we've overcome them and gotten the tools to really, be self-actualized and live the lives we're always meant to live.

Mary Schaub (18:30)

Well, you are inspiring in everything that you're doing and just, again, watching this documentary and reflecting on where we've come from. I know we are facing some real challenges. This is a profoundly difficult topic to deal with and to absorb the enormity of, but I do feel hopeful talking to you and seeing factually what you've actually done and to move the needle in advocacy and education.

You've said, and this is the last quote I'll share. You've written so well. I love reading what you write and so many things are so inspiring. But the last thing I'll say, you've said, quote, it is only by the courage of sheer numbers that the system can be changed permanently. And what we are seeing now is a gathering crowd in the Tahir Square of humanity's conscience and a rising voice for change. Are you hopeful, Jerome?

Jerome Elam (19:25)

Well, am. always hopeful. mean, hope is the one thing that we all have inside us. Hope can be like a set of car keys we lost. You may not find them immediately. You look around, you can always find it. But hope is what drives us, what defines us. And I think there's always hope. And I know that together, we can make the world a better place and that all of us have the ability to be the change the world needs. We can start right this second and do that.

Right away.

Mary Schaub (19:54)

I love that. And I don't know if you knew, but the tagline for the podcast is you are the change you and the world are waiting for. And so I feel like your story is just a beautiful example where you created something that you as a child needed that didn't exist. And now you are coming to the rescue for so many others. You're doing it through legislation. You're doing it through training, through advocacy.

And you're doing it by just generously sharing your story so vulnerably and really leading with courage. And there's so much, know, on LinkedIn, there's lots of like fun marketing stuff about trauma informed and this and leadership and everything. And I just would point to you to say, this is what this really means. You are the gold standard. So I wanna close with a segment I call the protagonist questionnaire. Again, we're both the writer and the main character of our story. So.

We're gonna take a deep breath and get to know you a little bit better. So the first question is, what person or people first showed you your own power?

Jerome Elam (20:54)

wow. I would say my close friend who's a female survivor, I think she really revealed to me how to look at life without the lens of trauma. And I think that when you can kind of move past that trauma and see the world for what it is, the wonderful place it is and how many opportunities there are, it really does change your life. And I think that God really has worked through me and I'm so grateful for that.

But I continue to be inspired by people like you, my family, and all those survivors and victims out there who are breaking their silence, taking a stand, and really just making sure that we stop this right now and make sure not more victims suffer.

Mary Schaub (21:37)

What film do you find most inspiring?

Jerome Elam (21:40)

Oh, hard to watch, but Antoine Fisher, which is a movie that was directed by Denzel Washington. It's a true story of a young man, Antoine Fisher, who was molested and abused as a young boy and overcame that to join the military and, you know, regain his life. But he was helped by a psychiatrist, a Navy psychiatrist who's played by Denzel Washington.

to overcome the trauma what happened to him and begin to reconnect with the world.

Mary Schaub (22:16)

that sounds very inspiring. What is your favorite character from literature or film?

Jerome Elam (22:21)

Oh, wow. You know, that's a difficult one. know, I think anyone who overcomes adversity There's a good movie called Signs with Mel Gibson.

where he plays a member of the clergy whose wife was killed in an accident and just says, I'm done with God. But over the course of the movie, and it's about him battling aliens, and he basically finds his way back.

Mary Schaub (22:32)

yeah.

Jerome Elam (22:45)

begins to see the light that shines inside and then begin to share that with

Mary Schaub (22:49)

What song do you play to psych yourself up?

Jerome Elam (22:53)

defy you by the offspring, and one of the songs that really has a lot of meaning for me is, Can't Find My Way Home by Steve Winwood.

Mary Schaub (23:04)

What is your favorite comfort food?

Jerome Elam (23:06)

my favorite comfort food is probably sushi. Yeah, sushi. love sushi. with some wasabi is definitely a comfort food with me for sure. well, saki doesn't hurt either,

Mary Schaub (23:10)

wow!

Yeah, yeah.

What do you do to unwind, self-soothe or remind yourself not to take life too seriously? can imagine going back to self-care, right? There's a counterbalance with everything that you do and give to all of us with your work.

Jerome Elam (23:35)

you know, I like to just get out and experience nature, go for a hike, go for a walk and just get the peacefulness. And that really does reground me and regain that sense of peace.

Mary Schaub (23:38)

Yes, same.

Jerome Elam (23:45)

So I just like being outdoors and being able to feel close to God and close to nature.

Mary Schaub (23:51)

What sound fills your heart with joy?

Jerome Elam (23:55)

laughter. Laughter and I think the sound of someone breaking their silence after many, many years. You know, I had a 78 year old woman when I was at a conference in Maryland tell me for the first time that she had been molested So the sound of someone's voice when they begin to break that silence is really beautiful. But also, know, laughter and just someone who like you,

Mary Schaub (23:56)

Yeah.

Jerome Elam (24:19)

is just a very passionate about what they do. mean, that to me is just so beautiful we know a lot of people who, like you said, spend their entire lives running from themselves and what makes them happy, but it's when someone stops and doesn't 180 and embraces who they are, what makes them happy. That is something very beautiful.

Mary Schaub (24:41)

And you're facilitating a lot of those experiences. What is your spirit animal?

Jerome Elam (24:46)

well, my Native American spirit animal is the raven. That's my Native American spirit animal. mean, because I was born in autumn. So, and then I'm a rabbit in the Chinese zodiac.

Mary Schaub (24:50)

⁓ I love, that's awesome.

that's wonderful.

What is your favorite quote?

Jerome Elam (25:02)

you know, I have a lot, but one of my favorites is from Einstein is that the world will not be destroyed by those who propagate evil, but they just stand by and watch it happening.

Mary Schaub (25:15)

All right, last question, and I think this one will be easy for you is, how do you wish to be remembered?

Jerome Elam (25:20)

I wish to be remembered as someone who cared about victims of survivors and cared about them finding a path to the love and peace they deserve and someone who stood up for everyone who is suffering in silence and feels like they don't matter.

Mary Schaub (25:40)

Well, Jerome, I'm gonna remember this conversation for a long time I'm gonna remember you as a fearless warrior, an advocate, a helper. It's been an honor to have you on the show and to know you. I'm grateful for the tireless work you continue to do. And also the example that you set for us all. I like having people around me that make me wanna be better and you do that.

me that we all have enough to contribute and we can help others and do better. So thank you for everything that you've done, that you do. The world is a better place because of you. So thank you.

Jerome Elam (26:15)

Oh, thank you. You

too as well. I mean, I'm just honored again to be able to be a voice for victims and survivors and be a firewall against the darkness for kids and other vulnerable people and be a beacon of hope and light for everyone who feels like there's no tomorrow because there always is.

You just have to remember that it's always darkest before the light and it will come for sure.

Mary Schaub (26:42)

will especially with people like you who are so loving and caring and protective. So thank you again.

Jerome Elam (26:49)

Thank you.