Shobukai Shift
Shobukai Shift is a podcast dedicated to the inner work of transformation. It isn't about performance or productivity, it’s a space for real conversations about what it takes to shift paths, break from convention, and grow. It’s about the emotional, spiritual, and psychological terrain of transformation. Shobukai is a Japanese word meaning “group walking the path of mastery,” and that’s exactly what the show is about: walking the path consciously, through complexity, without bypassing the hard parts.
This podcast is to help you remember your power and worth. And maybe, inspire you to be the change you, and the world, are waiting for.
Shobukai Shift
Rewrite Your Story, Reclaim Your Power: with Penelope Cottrell and Ria Glenn DeMay
In this engaging conversation, Mary Schaub speaks with Penny Cottrell and Ria Glenn DeMay about their journey from working in law and education to creating the Rewrite Workshops, a platform designed to help individuals explore their personal narratives and reclaim their power through writing. They discuss the transformative power of storytelling, the importance of community and connection in healing, and practical writing prompts for self-discovery. The conversation emphasizes the hero's journey in writing, the ripple effect of personal growth, and the significance of human connection in a digital age.
Takeaways:
💡Rewrite your story to reclaim your power.
💡Writing serves as a mirror and doorway to self-discovery.
💡Hurt people hurt people; heal people heal people.
💡You cannot use someone else's fire; you must find your own.
💡Life is too short to not pursue your passions.
💡Everyone is a natural storyteller, regardless of writing skills.
💡Healing is relational; we need each other.
💡Small changes can lead to significant transformations over time.
💡Community outreach is essential for supporting others.
💡Personal growth often comes from unexpected places.
Compelling Quotes:
🎤 "Each of us is both the writer and the protagonist of the story we're writing for ourselves.” — Mary Schaub
🎤“The power of rewriting your story isn’t just in the words—it’s in reclaiming your voice.” — Ria Penny
🎤“Writing gives us a mirror and a doorway. We see ourselves more clearly, and we step into a version of ourselves that is just a little bit more whole.” — Rewrite Workshops Blog
🎤“Healing is relational. Transformation is relational. We need each other for the real work to take root.” — Mary Schaub
🎤“I want to know who I am without the trauma, without the pressure to be perfect—just Ria, as she is.” — Ria Penny
🎤“We’re trying to bring back the fire—to be the mentors we needed when we were lost.” — Penny Cottrell
Show Links:
🌟The Rewrite Workshops (Substack) 🌟
Keywords:
✅ Rewrite Workshops, ✅ writing and healing, ✅ personal transformation, ✅ hero’s journey, ✅ shadow work, ✅ creative healing, ✅ journaling, ✅ storytelling for growth, ✅ trauma recovery, ✅ women’s empowerment, ✅ mindfulness, ✅ Joseph Campbell, ✅ narrative therapy, ✅ self-discovery, ✅ purpose-driven change, ✅ relational healing, ✅ raising strong boys ✅ Shobukai Shift
Disclaimer:
***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.***
Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub. Mixing Engineer: Dylan Yauch
Contact: Tell us how your transformation is going. Email us at Shobukai_Shift@mschaubadvisory.com or leave us a voicemail at (631) 371-3240 and we may play it on a future episode.
Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)
** Shobukai Shift is a MSA Production **
Mary Schaub (00:12)
All right, welcome Penny and Ria.
Penny Cottrell (00:15)
Thanks for having us, Mary.
Mary Schaub (00:17)
I'm so glad you're here. Did you guys bring a warm beverage or anything? I was gonna have some tea. I'm trying to make this like a cozy little chat. I don't know if you've ever seen the Hot Ones show where they eat hot wings during an interview. I was thinking, make it look like a beverage thing or drinks or coffee. I don't know.
Penny Cottrell (00:28)
Yep.
Ria (00:28)
Yes.
⁓ no,
for me it's always coffee.
Penny Cottrell (00:34)
water.
Mary Schaub (00:35)
I thought we could all slurp
and make it like an ASMR kind of experience.
Ria (00:39)
So my new thing, my new thing, Mary, is lavender. Like I'm on the lavender wave right now. So everything is just lavender matcha tea, lavender latte, everything. Like it's really bad. It's really gotten bad. Yeah.
Mary Schaub (00:42)
⁓
Really?
So I'm
trying to grow some and maybe I'll dry it and I can send it to you. think, I don't have a sense of smell. think with those lattes, like, can you taste lavender or is it something you can? Do you think you need smell to taste it? It's so subtle, right? In a latte, it's kind of a subtle thing.
Ria (00:56)
Yeah
Yes. Yes. Yes. It just
Penny Cottrell (01:02)
Yeah, a little bit.
Ria (01:08)
tastes, it tastes like, you know, you know the internet, like on YouTube, what they called? Soft Life? Like it tastes like Soft Life. It tastes like self-care. It's good.
Mary Schaub (01:13)
Yeah.
I love that.
All right, well, I think I feel inspired to work on a lavender martini or something. I'll take that away as a... I am so excited to be talking with you both today and what you've done is so cool and the concept is so perfect. it almost feels like we've been in cahoots because it's so aligned to, I think this show and everything I'm trying to do over here. You guys are the founders of the Rewrite Workshops.
Ria (01:20)
You
Yes, yes, yes, yes, like it.
Penny Cottrell (01:24)
Yeah
Mary Schaub (01:45)
And I think your tagline is a perfect explanation of what you're offering here. Rewrite your story, reclaim your power. And to go into it a little bit, your workshops offer people an opportunity to better understand and express themselves through writing, but also, and here I think is really the compelling part for me, you're helping people explore where maybe old and outdated stories are holding them back. And so I say pretty frequently on this show that
each of us is both the writer and the protagonist of the story we're writing for ourselves. And sometimes I spew this stuff here and then I'm like, I kind of check myself and I'm like, I'm sure people are at home being like, all right, yeah, that's cute, nice concept, but like, what do I do with that? How can I take this cute little concept and like practically change my situation? And I feel like what you're doing is a great tool to help people do exactly that. So I'd love if you could share a little bit about the origin story of
Ria (02:17)
Very true. Right, right, exactly.
Mary Schaub (02:42)
how you came to create this.
Ria (02:42)
Sure, So
I'm with you, Mary. I'm the same way. You know, people talk about, okay, so these are the concepts I kept hearing for years and I just couldn't figure out what that meant. Like shadow work, right? When people kept saying shadow work, I'm like, what does that mean? What does that look like? Do the work, okay. Like I'm in therapy, what else? Do you know what I mean?
one of the things that happened was I would get these flashes like workshop, rewrite story, and it would come in and then it would go. And January 6th of last year, I'll never forget it, January 6th of 2024, I was in a content creator, like a networking group.
and I was just meeting people and we ended up doing this workshop by accident. we were all talking about goals for the year and next thing you know, we're talking about what's holding us back. And it wasn't things that were recent. it's like when I was homecoming queen, when this happened when I was five, my dad,
I think it was for me to see what this would look like. If that makes sense, I don't know if everyone believes in the higher power, but for me was like, someone wanted me to see what does this look like, how freeing this could be for folks.
And we all joined on social media with each other. So I was able to see over the course of a few months how this was panning out and how everyone was trying to stretching themselves and stretching their boundaries. was number one, was cool to see in everyone else. And then probably within three months, I had had this 16 year career in labor and employment law. And I was a labor negotiator. And all of a sudden I was like, this is not me. Like the remnants of what had happened from the workshop, the planted a seed. I was like, this is not me.
This is not authentically me. was great first season. I don't regret it. But this is not truly who I am and who I'm meant to be. I'm a creative. I'm a creative writer. I'm not a legal writer. I'm a creative writer. I'm going for it. And it was shortly thereafter, my husband got diagnosed with a health issue with a benign brain tumor. And that was it. That was like, life is too short. I'm going for it. But it was that workshop that planted the seed. And I thought to myself, if that could happen for me.
and give me the courage and I can watch this play out in so many other people's lives. It would be remiss of me not to share that with other people Now I know what shadow work looks like. Now I know what goal setting and a new story can look like. I should be sharing that with other people.
Mary Schaub (05:05)
my God, that is so exciting. I have chills. And what's interesting, I spoke with you guys a little bit before we decided to do this and I knew about your workshop, the two of you took together. I didn't know that part, Ria And so now that's even more talking about like there are no coincidences, right? Now that's even more clear to me that that's absolutely true. And as you're talking...
Ria (05:16)
Yeah, yeah.
Penny Cottrell (05:21)
Thank
Ria (05:24)
No.
Mary Schaub (05:29)
And even before, but especially now I'm thinking it's so fascinating how we all make these micro decisions in our everyday lives and whether they're conscious or not. These decisions link to the story that we tell ourselves. So it's really interesting. The genesis of how this business idea came into being is like a great example of what you're actually trying to do. It's kind of like this meta example that the way we think about ourselves.
Ria (05:40)
Yes.
Right.
Mary Schaub (05:57)
impacts our day-to-day decisions and then our day-to-day decisions like reinforce that. And so that if either of you were telling yourself a different story, like, this is boring, it's not interesting, you like you can't really change this stuff. It's the past, the past stuff should live in the past. Or you guys are in your workshop and you're like, I'm too vulnerable. I don't really want to, I don't know that heard that well. And if any, at any point in the time during any of those things, this doesn't happen, right? I mean, that's.
Ria (06:18)
Right. Yes.
Mary Schaub (06:25)
That's so fascinating that the genesis of this business idea is born in the case study of why it works. So brilliant. Wow. And I love the backstories too. And so, yeah, you mentioned that you study, Ria, you study journalism and mass communication, and then you went on to have a successful career as a lawyer working in education. And Penny, you're a writer and an educator, and you've been heavily involved in literacy advocacy. You play a leadership role in the North Carolina
Ria (06:32)
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Penny Cottrell (06:33)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mary Schaub (06:55)
writer's network and your backstories have prepared you with this combined experience to be well-placed. So yes, it was like, hey, we, you know, we took the chance, we had the conversation, we did this. But then if you look at both of your backgrounds, it's perfectly, like you couldn't reverse engineer like how to get to this point, right? Doesn't it seem very elegant? It's lined up. So I'm curious.
Penny Cottrell (07:16)
All the dominoes lined up, right? Yeah.
Mary Schaub (07:21)
jumping forward to the workshop that the both of you attended, I'm curious what was going on for both of you in that workshop, because I think here's the thing. People take workshops all the time and they can meet cool and interesting people, but most of us don't walk out deciding to start a company together. So can you share a little bit about like what that energy was like and what was going on?
Ria (07:25)
Right.
Penny Cottrell (07:45)
Well, Mary, I think it's so serendipitous that all three of us sort of met through writing, through creative. And when I met Ria, think for both of us, were, you know, we're writers, we've gone and just sort of taken this leap of faith into this career path that we feel very passionate about
Mary Schaub (07:49)
Yes, it's true!
Penny Cottrell (08:03)
we happen to be two of 10 people who were chosen for this workshop through the North Carolina Writers Network last summer. And
of all the people there, the two protagonists in our novels that we were workshopping happened to be very similar and then they were both very powerful female characters. And we got to talking over the weekend, you mean, you're spending all this time together with this group of people and really getting to know everybody. And we had a really cohesive group, all 10 of us, and we were very fortunate to have a fantastic instructor for us.
But
Ria and I just clicked for some reason. And it also helped that we live 15 minutes from each other. We don't live in disparate parts of the state either, but we got together after that and thought, let's be each other's accountability partners and really see these novels through to the end. And in learning about how we write and what we write about, we learned that we both use writing as a tool for healing. We both have histories of trauma and...
It was just one of those things where it was the right time and right place. And I feel like I've known Ria for a lot longer than I've known her, which has been less than a year. But we just clicked it off and it just worked. Everything fell into place.
Ria (09:07)
Okay.
Mary Schaub (09:12)
that's so beautiful. And it's interesting you say you know each other longer than you would assume. And I think so many of us can often be in chapters where most of the relationships are somewhat superficial. And sometimes that's appropriate. Certainly I've spoken in the past about maybe it's not always great to bring your authentic self to
some professional environments, for
But when you're in
certain environments and then you're like, no, this is where I can, you're like, wow, this is a different type of relationship than all those other things. And then things happen in very dynamic ways. It's not about, hey, I'm trying to get Ria to buy something or I'm trying to network or I'm trying to, when you just enter it from a place of curiosity and openness and acceptance and then with combined values of, ⁓ hey, we...
Ria (09:42)
All right.
.
Mary Schaub (09:59)
we believe in this process of holding ourselves accountable to be creators, to heal ourselves, and then to reach that point and go, maybe we can do something more to help other people. I'm also a trauma survivor and a writer as we've met through writing workshops, Penny, and even just keeping a journal has been
an amazing therapeutic tool for me.
I think I've spoken in other kind of writing groups about how sometimes that process is so unconscious that something's coming through you. And so it's the craft of the writing per se, but there's this deeper work at play, which I'd love to dig into a little bit. Is it fair to say your workshops blend psychology, mindfulness, and storytelling techniques?
I loved it. This is the space I play in all the time. And I'd love to know more about, I guess, those types of things in your past experience, which helped you define your specific methodology for this workshop.
Penny Cottrell (11:00)
So I came into writing during the pandemic and I think that was such a an inflection point for everybody worldwide. And it also happened to coincide with me turning 40. And I think that was also an inflection point for me. I think so many people right now, even as a collective community, we're all at an inflection point. We are on the brink of something, some big shift. So I think you are spot on with this podcast.
Ria (11:13)
And we'll
Penny Cottrell (11:28)
I think Ria and I, you you can hear the rumblings underground coming through. And I think this is an instance of that where we just felt it in our hearts that a big change is coming. I don't know what it is exactly, but not only personally, but I think in terms of a collective society. And Mary, I know you have a background in psychology and I have a background in politics because I've been heavily interested in social justice and human rights.
Ria (11:42)
Right.
Penny Cottrell (11:56)
And I think writing is such a beautiful and authentic way to tap into that.
Mary Schaub (12:00)
Wow, I toyed with jumping into this topic, but I know I can with you both of you guys. And I'm going to ask people to bear with me because I'm going to go on a little thing because I love talking with people like you because you're so intelligent and so emotionally aware. as I was just saying, when you can connect to people on this level, it's like a different game, right? It's like a different dynamic. But I...
Ria (12:19)
Right.
Mary Schaub (12:22)
I am a big fan of Joseph Campbell. there was, think I was, I forget how old I was when I came across that PBS. There was a Bob Bill Moyers thing on PBS. And I mean, I think I was like 12 or something. And I'm a little bit older than you guys, but I was like 12. And I remember watching it and I had no business like something, you know how you go look back in your life and you're like, wow, I was an old soul. was like looking at the thing. I didn't know what the hell it was, but there was something that made me watch this, these two old men on PBS talking about some stuff.
Ria (12:24)
⁓ Yes, yes, yes, yes, live for it.
Yes, yes.
Yes.
Mary Schaub (12:52)
There's no reason why a 12, 13 year old girl would wanna do it. But there was another part of me that knew that there was, pay attention. And, God, this stuff is so cool. So myths and archetypes, and I know you guys know this, but I'm just gonna talk about it a little bit for those who don't. They're so deeply imprinted on human consciousness because they operate as universal patterns that transcend culture, geography, time. And it helps us make sense of our experiences.
Ria (13:14)
Right.
Mary Schaub (13:19)
And so what I think Joseph Campbell was so brilliant at teaching is like the enduring power of the hero's journey. Because it's like perfect, it's so perfect in an example of how patterns become encoded in storytelling across cultures. So whether it's like ancient epics to Star Wars, because like the hero's journey, it exemplifies the psychological process of growth and challenge and transformation that's inherent to being a human.
Ria (13:26)
Right, right.
Right. Right.
Mary Schaub (13:49)
And so I love that you're using writing as a tool here. And we should mention also is like folks don't have to worry about writing skills, right? They don't have to love writing or be writers. Cause they hear us talking, we're like, we're writers. And it's like, no, no, that doesn't matter. Because as humans, we're natural storytellers. It's part of us. It's part of us as human beings. And then the concept of rewriting our narratives.
Ria (13:59)
Right. Right.
All right. No, no.
Penny Cottrell (14:08)
us.
Mary Schaub (14:14)
It's like sitting right at the intersection of personal development and creative practice. And so just, you know, maybe tactically, I'd love to hear how those two elements are balanced in your workshops.
Ria (14:19)
Bye.
So Mary, I love that you mentioned Joseph Campbell. So I would love to tell you I watched that. Yes, I have watched that in the last six weeks, that old interview. Yeah, because PBS was doing another fundraiser. It really wasn't old school. that methodology, because Penny and I are both working on novels.
Mary Schaub (14:33)
If you know, you know, right? We got it all excited.
wow.
Ria (14:53)
I'm in a writing intensive one, you're writing intensive right now. So I am using that prototype. And you know what I've done? I've tried to mark my own life by that. I've used that. And like even the refusal of the call. And I think that's what we're trying to do with these workshops. We're trying to, I mean, this wasn't preset between us, like that you hit the nail right on the head.
We're trying to take everyone on their own hero's journey. So through all the steps, so that's what I feel like I've been on I'm gonna be very frank. I lived my life in a lot of ways for other people a lot of my decisions to major in what I majored in go to law school Be in a legal career. I've enjoyed what I did for a living immensely But it was never fully it never made my heart sing in the way. I knew something was missing
Nothing I could do could take that away from me. I knew something was missing. had amazing coworkers and I just knew something was still missing. And that's what I'm, I've experienced myself, the beauty and the power of rewriting my story and being on my own hero's journey. And this is what I'm trying to like bring the fire back, right? That's what, what's the whole point of the hero's journey, bring back the reward. That's what I'm trying to do. I think it's what Penny's trying to do.
to bring back the fire to the community so that they too can have the experience. Because here's the thing, you when my husband got diagnosed with his brain tumor, you stop. Like you can sit, I was 40 something, I was 41 years old, you stop. You just stop and you start to reflect and say, life is so short.
I don't know that I get another crack at it, right? I don't know if reincarnation is real. I know I have this life and I wanna leave it all out on the table. I don't wanna live anymore for my parents and I don't wanna live anymore for this person, that person. I don't wanna live through this wound anymore. I don't want that wound to define me anymore. I wanna be my own person. I wanna know who Ria is without the trauma. I wanna know who Ria is without the input.
of other people in the general public. I want to know what Ria is without the pressure to be perfect and just be herself.
Mary Schaub (17:07)
Again, the chills, it's exactly what I'm trying to do with this podcast. And the podcast is something I'm doing for me because I'm going through that exact same process as well. And by the way, Ria, you're so brilliant because you've already answered the next question that I had written for you, which was like, hey, for me personally, I've been in a corporate career for 30 years, very successful, just as you, there's like an egoic connection to being this title or this job and.
Ria (17:16)
Right.
Yeah.
yeah.
Mary Schaub (17:34)
You know, it's
a quick way of signaling who you are in a cocktail party. You know, like they'll look at your shoes and your handbag and then you say where you work and your title And that's very safe. And it is part of building a successful career, but I think you can reach a certain age. And hopefully we're changing the world to where we'll be doing, everyone will be doing this.
Ria (17:39)
Exactly.
Mary Schaub (17:55)
it's not a midlife crisis. you don't have to wait till you're 70 to realize life is short.
Ria (17:55)
Yes. Right.
Mary Schaub (18:00)
I still work with companies, but it's a different type of relationship. And I have now coaching people I work with and this podcast just feels like more of an alignment of who I am, less trade-offs. And then also, can I be doing something that's helpful?
Can I be putting something in the world that's positive? Because if we look around, feels like, know, things are tough. Things are tough. I wanna read a quote you guys posted on your blog on Substack. And I'm gonna put a link in the show notes for people to check it out. I highly recommend, because you guys write beautifully and there's a lot of wisdom and you post free exercises that people can try on their own. So.
Ria (18:16)
Mmm.
Yeah, right.
Mary Schaub (18:39)
So here's a quote you guys put up recently. Personal growth doesn't always arrive with fireworks. Sometimes it shows up in a sentence we didn't expect to write, a memory we thought we'd buried, a truth we've been circling around. Writing gives us a mirror and a doorway. We see ourselves more clearly and we step into a version of ourselves that is just a little bit more whole. Wow.
Ria (18:40)
Thank you.
Mary Schaub (19:06)
I mean, it's so beautiful how you've captured this process of self-transformation. And as I think about what you're doing with the workshops and what's so important, I don't think we talk about enough is that you can't go through this completely alone, right? Like I think healing from trauma is relational, transforming is relational. I think we...
Ria (19:25)
And.
Mary Schaub (19:31)
we really need each other. And so I then started going back to Joseph Campbell and our archetypes and maybe just for a second, indulge me for folks who don't know about archetypes, these universal recurring patterns or symbols. And so if I say hero or villain, everybody knows exactly what I mean. Everyone has their own version of it and it transcends time and culture.
Ria (19:47)
Right. ⁓
Mary Schaub (19:53)
There's also this archetype for helper, mentor, healer or wise one, right? You got your Gandoffs and your Obi-Wan Kenobis, your Yoda, your Dumbledores, and they typically appear when the protagonist is ready to grow, but needs guidance to navigate unfamiliar territory. And again, I just think we need each other more. And I think where we are right now as a society is we're so isolated, we become so disconnected from
Ria (19:58)
Right, right, right, right.
Mary Schaub (20:22)
ourselves and then we wonder why we feel disconnected from each other and we're so lonely. And so, you know, as I think about you guys playing this role, you know, we start with Obi-Wan Kenobi in the Star Wars canon. We first meet him, he's a powerful old wise Jedi, but then we learn his backstory when he was young and learning. as he evolved, he then became a wise one who could then like in an apprenticeship model, then help the next person.
Ria (20:50)
Agreed. Yep. Yep.
Mary Schaub (20:51)
you know, in
older, you know, indigenous societies and older cultures, there was this understanding of people helping support each other. So, but back to us, as you can tell, I love this shit, I can talk on and on about it forever. But I think that's sort of what you're playing now, You're on your journey and now you're reaching out and helping others. And you're offering both individual and group workshops
Ria (21:03)
Hahaha!
Mary Schaub (21:17)
And these can be taken either virtually or in person. And so as I'm thinking about this, do you expect that this could possibly rise to a form of fellowship and community building as well, just as what you experienced Ria in the workshops that you've attended, that this is very helpful tool for an individual, but also, you know, maybe there's something broader happening here that you're creating space for a community.
Penny Cottrell (21:40)
Well, Mary, think we, like you've said so many times in your podcast, it's not about jumping ship and making this colossal change all in one fell swoop. And our hope with the rewrite workshops is to have different types of workshops to explore different parts of your life and different, you know, even different moods that you might have in that particular workshop that we take or, or something that has happened in your life recently that you want to address and
Ria (21:50)
Okay.
Penny Cottrell (22:08)
In the aggregate, all these little small changes will add up to a bigger, broader change. taking those small steps, those small manageable steps, really helps just focus that. And if you write, you're a writer, I will always say that, and I will take that to my grave, because a lot of people say, I'm not a writer, I don't know anything about the craft. It doesn't matter. As long as you know what your story is and you have an imagination and you're able to utilize it.
Ria (22:13)
Okay.
Penny Cottrell (22:33)
you really
do have more power than you think you do. And I think for all three of us trauma survivors, one of the first things we learned as small children is that we don't have a voice. And our hope now is that writing will be that voice for you. And even just taking small steps, building it together can make a big change in your life.
Ria (22:37)
Right. Yes.
Mary Schaub (22:53)
I thought of a quote years ago, was someone bought me a book of quotes about writing and writers. And I think there was something to the effect of I write so I
Ria (22:53)
Yes.
Mary Schaub (23:03)
can learn how I feel or something to that effect. And there's so many times that I will write something and then I'll come back to it. And it's like I'm reading something else that someone else wrote. And even if I go back and sometimes I'll reread journals at different periods in my life and I'll pick up on something that's completely.
Ria (23:06)
Yes, yes, yes.
Mary Schaub (23:21)
I just didn't realize that now makes a lot of sense. Or I'll say, wow, this thing has changed so much. Or hey, here's this enduring quality of myself that hasn't changed. It's so instructional. And I also think it's a way of helping us reconnect with our inner lives. I meditate, I'm a big fan of Eastern philosophies. We've spoken Penny a little bit about that.
There's lots of different ways to practice and whether it's sitting on a mat or going to a retreat or something, writing is such an accessible, easy way to just try to get back inside of ourselves because we are so externally focused right now. And really, some of us, and I catch myself from time to time, I will just forget my inner world. I will forget...
the felt sense of being in my body or what I'm feeling. And sometimes someone will be like, hey, how are you feeling about that? And I'll be like, huh? Like what? Like I have to actually reground myself because I'm not, I've lost that connection. It's so easy. And maybe that's hustle culture. Maybe that's a digital culture, but using writing as a way of going back to that kind of inner safe sanctuary that is each of us. And to your point, Ria, like finding
Ria (24:16)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Mary Schaub (24:36)
who you really are because if you stay disconnected long enough, you will find yourself on a completely different path that's not aligned to who you really are if you lose that connection.
Penny Cottrell (24:45)
going inside is uncomfortable and doing that on your own sometimes is too much. So having a safe space to do that and having people that you trust and can help guide you through that can be really reassuring. And that's what we have to do at the Rewrite Workshops.
Ria (24:55)
Right.
Yeah, so Mary, I think it's add to what Penny's saying. I just identified as a writer, literally less than a year ago when I applied to the workshop Penny referenced earlier. That was a lark. That was crazy. I knew I was not getting in. I just knew I was just like, I'm gonna do it. And...
What writing allows for me, I have found all old journals. It was like I was leaving myself breadcrumbs. I found them at the right moment when I needed the right thing. Like I got stuck writing a few weeks back, I'm in this writing intensive producing this novel and I found a journal. I don't know when I wrote it. must have been least 15 years ago. Found a journal, cleaned out the attic and it got me out of the rut.
Mary Schaub (25:25)
Mmm.
Ria (25:44)
It was just what I needed. was like I left myself a breadcrumb and that's what we're hoping to do with writing. We don't have space. Penny and I are trying to offer space. So I found writing prompts before. I've seen journals and books that supposed to walk you through these things before and they're very helpful. We are bombarded by so much messaging. I mean, we're on a podcast, so it's not lost to me. But at least this is the type of podcast that leads to growth and development.
A lot of us are bombarded by nonsense, especially at this time, especially so much chaos in the world. And if we can hold space for you, so you're not buying a book with writing prompts and saying, I'll get to it. We have organized a space for you to be able to address those issues. And I think one of the leading core values Penny and I have is to be what we needed.
You talked about Gandalf, you talked about Dumbledore, like to be what we needed when Penny and I were in COVID and going through our things. Like who did we need? Who did we need when we were making life decisions? And so our particular workshops as Penny referenced, we have different things for different facets. So we have a workshop that addresses the inner critic, right? And changing that inner critic and that narrative and making it
Mary Schaub (26:36)
Yes.
Penny Cottrell (26:38)
you
Ria (27:01)
something that's actually productive, like my inner critic became my coach, something of that nature. Or how to heal from a breakup and dealing with the feelings of that, or if you're going through life change and life transitions,
Mary Schaub (27:13)
I think there's something super profound with create what I needed. if I sort of triangulate all these data points of people who had some successful venture, often, not always, sometimes it's they're smart and they're technologically savvy, it was a good product, and sometimes makes money and all that, I get it. But like, it's so interesting how many times you will find that
Ria (27:18)
Yes.
Right?
Penny Cottrell (27:32)
Thank you.
Mary Schaub (27:38)
behind that success is because it's something I needed. like the smartless guys, mean, take something super, you know, not relatable, but the three celebrity guys who were jumping out of their skin during COVID, they were best friends, they couldn't see each other, wanted to keep each other company, wanted to make each other laugh, and just created a dumb podcast where they did the same things they would do in person. And it's just like, you know, multi-million dollar.
thing they created what they needed and somehow it resonated A couple weeks ago there was a podcast I had with Rob Kenny who's the internet dad. I don't know if you guys saw that ⁓ but again you know he was was 14 and he was you know by all means abandoned by his parents and raised by a sibling and
Ria (28:11)
Yep, yep, yep, yep.
Penny Cottrell (28:12)
Okay.
Mary Schaub (28:21)
as a 14 year old boy going through puberty, there's lots of questions and mentorship and things that you're gonna miss. And so he created a YouTube channel and things like how to tie a tie and change a flat tire. because I think there's a sense of healing that part of ourselves that is still a little bit hurt and scared. You're coming to your own rescue as a hero and you're solving that for your inner part that is still struggling.
Ria (28:32)
All right.
Mary Schaub (28:47)
And lo and behold, there's lots of other people who are currently 14 years old out there that you're now helping them. And there's an alchemy to it. And I'm laughing as I say alchemy. Penny and I are friends with a woman. She's a ex chemistry professor. And she gets really upset when I use alchemy, but I don't know. I love it. It's just this, how do you take something that's negative and painful and hurtful and blocking you?
Ria (28:51)
Right.
Penny Cottrell (29:01)
Mm-hmm.
Mary Schaub (29:11)
And how do you transform it into something that is the, it's opposite because everything has its opposite. Every, every light has its dark, right? Everything. And, and those things that are hurting us, you know, it's not just hide it. It's just not get over it or heal it. It's like, actually use that, use that for something else.
Ria (29:19)
Right. Right.
Right.
Mary Schaub (29:30)
in keeping with this thread, I'm coming to my rescue. I'm the change that I needed. I'm gonna create a podcast where someone talks about being inspired by change and not giving up and looking at it from a philosophical, psychological, business point, like whatever. Like I'm gonna try to do that to heal me. But then maybe someone else needs that too. And so I'm healing myself and I'm healing the world. I'm not saying I'm healing the world, but you know what I mean?
Ria (29:57)
No, but yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mary Schaub (29:58)
So I am the change that I'm
waiting for and maybe we're all waiting for that. I'm leading you guys, I'm leading the witness a little bit here. I'm curious to see how you might see the connection between Rewrite's work and broader societal impact. Because I personally believe, and maybe I'm just holding onto it because I need to believe it, that when we each follow that process and we do that work to heal and give ourselves what we need,
Ria (30:04)
Yeah.
Mary Schaub (30:24)
then we do put something out there positive into the world. And do you believe that maybe personal narrative work could lead to a collective change?
Penny Cottrell (30:36)
Yes, Mary, absolutely I do. think, you know, it's leading by example. If you do something that's authentic to you, somebody else is going to see that and pick up on it and say, I want to do that. I can do that too. And, you know, there's in writing, there's a formula for writing a story, right? It's not a secret. And I think if we can think of ourselves as our own protagonists,
Ria (30:45)
Yes.
Penny Cottrell (31:00)
and take ourselves through that hero's journey. writing just gives you a tool where you can really sit down and there's something about putting your thoughts on paper in your own handwriting and giving yourself that distance from it that makes it a little bit more objective. And you can see it more clearly and think, okay, I do have more power in how things go. I mean, there are always gonna be external factors. There's financial circumstances, there's...
health issues, things like that, but so much of it, you do have more control than you think. And I spoke earlier about as trauma survivors, you know, the voice being so important. And that's where writing really comes into play because that is our voice. know, Mary, I know that you studied psychology, which I think is endlessly fascinating. And there is a very human need to do something that's purposeful. And
Ria (31:36)
Right.
Penny Cottrell (31:51)
There are so many of us that are doing things for other people or for financial gain or for status, and we're not doing it for our own purpose. And I think, like I said earlier in the show, that we are at an inflection point where we're starting to come to this reckoning of recognizing that there is more to life than being in the hustle mentality and just making a name for yourself. And if we can take time to sit and write and really reflect on what our values are,
Ria (31:56)
Right.
Penny Cottrell (32:19)
there's that ripple effect, like dropping a pebble into a pond. Somebody else is gonna pick up on that, and then somebody else is gonna pick up on that, and it will just spread into the broader swath of society.
Ria (32:23)
Okay.
Mary Schaub (32:30)
And I think also it, what someone might, I don't think you need just one tool. I think you can be in therapy and still attend these workshops or
Ria (32:37)
Right, prefer it. We actually prefer it.
Mary Schaub (32:37)
go to a yoga retreat and still like bring everything, bring that, a whole toolbox with lots of different things. And sometimes one thing will get through in one way and another thing will hit you in a different way. And then each thing opens, it opens you a little bit and a little bit.
Penny Cottrell (32:40)
Yes.
Yes.
Ria (32:44)
you
right?
Mary Schaub (32:53)
So don't feel like, I'm already in therapy. I don't need anything else. Like, I mean, your therapists are great. But so is reading and writing and so is maybe an active practice. And as you start to make all these little changes and bring all these different things into your life, it just really compounds on each other. And I do wanna focus on...
Ria (32:59)
Yes.
Mary Schaub (33:16)
the relational piece of this and something you were saying Penny about holding space Cause right now there's so many people being like, well, I could do this on ChatGPT and I can do this. There's these free templates and listen, I love all that technology. It's fascinating every day. There's some new thing that blows my mind. But I think we're forgetting the power of human intimacy and it cannot be replicated. know that there's a...
Ria (33:23)
Right, right exactly.
Mary Schaub (33:40)
a girl who's fallen in love with Claude. And there's like lots of stories where people are getting something out of it. But there's something that when you sit with people, and even as I'm sitting with you and your guys aren't in the same room, like I can feel when you say certain things, I can feel it in my body. I'm sure, you know, when you lean in you're having a conversation at a cafe, there's something that happens. You just can't replicate that with AI or online friends. And...
Ria (34:02)
No, no.
Mary Schaub (34:05)
healing from trauma is relational and this transformative work is relational. We need those helpers, those mentors, those other people. The mentors get as much out of it too. I'm sure as you guys are learning from the experience of people you're working with. But the other thing, and Penny, you hinted to this before, one of the aspects of healing is to have
Penny Cottrell (34:18)
Yes.
Mary Schaub (34:32)
a safe witness to have a safe objective other hold that space for you. And whether that is, hey, I need to process something that was difficult and in the past, people weren't really there for me. They weren't capable to show up for me the way I needed to. And so some of my hurt is around having to carry this alone. And some of it is being a cheerleader there's so many components to the other being connected to this process.
Ria (34:33)
Mm.
Okay.
Mary Schaub (34:57)
I think we're hungering for it, you know? And I think the more digital technology takes over the day-to-day to our life, that this is gonna become a special commodity, being able to have people
sit with us in this way. I used to go to some yoga workshops and go to a practice every day and then COVID hit. And so it was YouTube in the basement. And yeah, okay, I'm doing yoga in the basement with YouTube.
Ria (35:16)
Right, right, right, right.
Mary Schaub (35:20)
totally different experience than being in a studio. Just the energy is totally different. And even meditating, I would just, you I've got the little app, I'll put the insight timer on and I'll sit there by myself. I now have started once or twice a week to join a group of folks on Zoom. And you just can't replicate it. There's something there, people remember you, they smile, it's nice to see you.
Penny Cottrell (35:22)
Mm-hmm.
Mary Schaub (35:42)
know, every time someone speaks, everyone just kind of like, you know, acknowledges it. This is really important stuff. I think people really need to consider taking advantage of more of these things and not losing touch to what it feels like to be connected to someone else.
Penny Cottrell (35:57)
Yeah, and we really want to make this accessible to everybody. I think our cost point is very low. then Ria and I also do community outreach because especially as women, I think this is so critical. So if we can work with nonprofits and offer free workshops once a month, just to give back to the community in a way that people have given to us, people have mentored us along the way. And this is us reaching back and taking the hand of the person behind us and bringing them up with us because
Ria (36:06)
Okay.
Penny Cottrell (36:24)
Like I said, especially as women where we're expected to do all the things in life, why not give each other the tools to be successful in what we really feel
in our heart is our purpose in life.
Ria (36:38)
you illustrated what we were talking about so beautifully. We are trying to create space because I'll give you an example. That workshop I did last year, I had been trying to do things like that on my own. I had been, I'd been doing the work, I'd been in therapy.
I had used books and things like that. There was nothing that could replace being with other people in the same spot and having people bounce ideas off of you. it's not just us, it's also a cohort of, usually about 10 to 12 people who also will be your cheerleader.
That's what was so pivotal for me. Doing it on my own was great. Like therapy, we love therapy. Therapy's great. But that's what was so pivotal was having that group to go through. That was the game changer.
Mary Schaub (37:29)
I mean, back to our loneliness epidemic here, There becomes a point because we're so locked into our screens and we're spending more and more time inside than ever before. There's some really shocking statistics about.
kids are spending more time indoors than is legally allowed for prisoners. Like we're not out mixing with folks. We're not out and about. We're not like maybe having spontaneous conversations at the like farmer's market or like going for a walk or a hike or anything. And maybe some of us don't know how to actually bridge and meet people. And so you think about, well, here's a space where, you you got some people.
Ria (37:46)
no! ⁓ no!
Mm.
Mary Schaub (38:06)
who are thinking about these important things. They care about these things. They care about themselves. They have that discipline. It's kind of like meeting someone at the gym maybe, right? They have like, you know, they have sort of healthy attitudes. People attending this are people who have a mindset that is probably gonna be someone that would be a great friend. Just as the two of you formed this friendship. And so I just love this so much. You recently posted some rewrite and reflect prompts.
Ria (38:10)
Right, right.
Exactly.
Mary Schaub (38:33)
on your blog and you were suggesting that folks spend some time like on a Sunday to reflect and maybe set some intentions for the week ahead. And it's so lovely and I find a lot of power in ritual and of course consistency is crucial for any transformation. And so I'd love it if you wouldn't mind maybe walking us through some of these powerful but simple prompts that people listening might be able to take away and maybe even use this weekend.
Penny Cottrell (39:00)
Mary, I love Sundays because for most of us, it's the start of a new week. And it's a little bit like a mini New Year's that you get 52 times in the year. It's always a time for me where I set my intention for the week. So not necessarily a goal that I have to hit or something like that, but just.
tapping into myself and saying, what do I want the purpose of this week to be? And like I spoke about earlier, you don't have to make a huge change all in one fell swoop. Taking a small manageable bite in one week, it's not a big ass, not a lot of time, but being able to make that tiny shift one time a week in the aggregate as it builds up over a year or over several years, that's where you start to see the big shift.
Ria (39:40)
Yeah.
Penny Cottrell (39:48)
we've been calling them Penny's prompts.
But Penny's prompts are just to get you to think about some aspect of your life that you might need to tap into that week. And it could be something that, you know, it's been on your mind or it could be something that, gosh, I never really thought about that. Maybe I should consider that for this week. So we hope in doing that, that it will just give you a little quiet, and you know, you don't need much time, five minutes, sit down and jot. You could do bullet points if you want.
But just some time to get the wheels turning in your mind so that when Monday morning hits and you're hitting the ground running, that seed has already been planted in your mind and you're ready to go.
Mary Schaub (40:24)
I love it. By the way, I have my non-interview shows. do protagonist ponderings. I'm right there with you. And maybe it's me. Maybe some people think that they don't have permission to ponder and reflect. And maybe in our society now, we just operate in a different way where just doing that seems really odd.
Ria (40:30)
Yeah.
Mm.
Mary Schaub (40:45)
And it's so powerful and it taps into so many things. So thank you so much. So I have a little segment called the protagonist questionnaire, right? it's inspired by the French journalist Bernard Pivot and borrowed heavily if not stolen from the late great James Lipton from the actor studio.
Ria (40:45)
Yeah.
Mary Schaub (41:04)
first question, what person or people first showed you your own power?
Ria (41:11)
this is a hard one for me Mary. like
This one was hard because the person who showed me my own power was an antagonist.
Mary Schaub (41:18)
Mmm, that's even better.
Ria (41:20)
Wasn't
so yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I think I was in fourth grade as part of the honors, you know, academic talents program. And I had a teacher who, you know, wasn't great. She wasn't great. The person ran that program. Yes. I looked very different from anyone else in that program. And I don't know that that was always welcome. And so.
Mary Schaub (41:31)
Mm-hmm. You're being kind, I can tell. Mm-hmm.
Ria (41:42)
I got a lot of support and didn't always get that support. So, you know, I'll just call her Miss D. We had to do a presentation on this island that we created, right, in the program. And I left myself at home. The day we had to do the presentation for the other kids. outside of the program, had to do it for our classes, like the 30, 40 kids.
And I left myself at home and she got me, man. She got me. I was in her web and she's like, you're going anyway. And I was like, dang it. And I had none of my stuff prepared. my teacher, Msitek, she was my fourth EP teacher. She was amazing, amazing. Like my homeroom teacher, she amazing. She rooted for me. She was my first cheerleader. And she said, basically, you got this. You're going to go up there and you're going to kill it without your notes, without anything.
Mary Schaub (42:11)
Wow.
Ria (42:34)
And so we did a vote at the end of the presentation and they asked the kids, they all voted for my presentation. They asked the kids, what was it that you liked about Ria so much? They said that she didn't use any notes or notes card.
Mary Schaub (42:45)
Wow.
Ria (42:46)
And that's how I knew I'm going to speak for a living. That's how I knew I was going to go into law. That's how I knew I was going to be really comfortable going in front of a camera, journalism, all of it. She did that for me. She blessed me with that. So I'm not even mad about it anymore, but it was a blessing. So she was the first person to show me the power of my voice.
Mary Schaub (43:06)
That's amazing. Thank you for sharing that, Penny.
Ria (43:08)
Yeah.
Penny Cottrell (43:10)
I will say it was my best friend Sarah in high school. My father had had a violent outburst and she happened to be at my house when it happened. And she was the one who ran after him and chased him down and he ran off scared. And that was the first time I'd seen any woman stand up to my father. So she was my inspiration. Yeah.
Ria (43:28)
Wow. Wow.
Mary Schaub (43:28)
How?
It's so fascinating. I feel like we need to do a show just on this prompt, or just on this question. And it also makes you think about your power and influence, especially with young kids, right? Like I had a friend of mine who was a teacher and she said she is somewhat sarcastic sometimes and she had to learn that sarcasm doesn't always land with other people.
Ria (43:40)
yeah.
Mary Schaub (43:56)
She had said something, little kid was asked to something and she was very sarcastic and the little girl started to cry. And it's so interesting when you put that hat on and you remember how big the world seemed and how overwhelming. then when someone, as you're a child, you start to realize, wait a minute, I'm growing into this own powerful being. Wow, that's awesome. All right, hopefully this will be an easier question. What film do you find most inspiring?
Ria (43:57)
Right.
Yeah.
Okay.
Hunger Games, like, I love it. don't, it's one of those, it drives my kids crazy.
That's a classic hero's journey. So love Hunger Games, love the study of kind of human psychology under duress.
Mary Schaub (44:36)
How about you, Penny?
Penny Cottrell (44:37)
Dead Poets Society. I lived in San Francisco for 20 years. Robin Williams is in my heart, but it's also about teaching. And at my heart and my core, I'm a teacher.
Mary Schaub (44:39)
⁓ yeah, that would have been mine too.
Ria (44:41)
She
has a good one. She has a good one.
Mary Schaub (44:50)
all right, next up, what is your favorite character?
from literature or film. Do we know this one, Ria? Can I deduce?
Ria (44:57)
Katniss. We talked about this with writing, the Mary Sue's. Don't write these perfect characters who don't really have all these levels to them. To me, Katniss, when you think of a teenage girl, they tend to be stereotyped as bubbly and she's just like, I'm here to protect my sister, my mom, I'm doing what I need to do.
Mary Schaub (44:58)
Katniss.
Ria (45:18)
I'm taking on multiple levels of government, like multiple levels. like, she's just one girl just showing up, doing her thing. She's not here. I think that's the thing that gets to me. So, okay, I'm going to go deep for a second. I didn't even really fall in love for second. I think for me, I've always known I had to perform. Like I had to be at a certain level of...
Mary Schaub (45:34)
Do it! Do it! Let's do it!
Ria (45:43)
standard for everything. If I danced, I was going to be a college cheerleader. I played sports, I was going play sports in college. Everything had to be at a certain level. There was constant pressure. And I liked that Kat just didn't care. She didn't care about performing for the camera. She didn't care about all the stuff that everyone wanted her to care about. Like, this is me. I'll do it, but just want you to this is me. And I'm not here to perform for you. There's something about that power that I think I was attracted to in that character.
Mary Schaub (46:12)
She knew she was good enough, as she was.
Ria (46:14)
Yeah,
she's kind of and she didn't really care if you didn't like she didn't care. She just didn't care. You know, I loved it.
Mary Schaub (46:18)
Yeah.
I'm Ria Penney.
Penny Cottrell (46:24)
Matilda from Roald Dahl.
Mary Schaub (46:27)
⁓
Penny Cottrell (46:28)
Because she's so smart and so witty and she just, you she has all these terrible people in her life and she finds a way to get through all of the crap in her life.
Mary Schaub (46:37)
that's, that's awesome. I, I'm trying to think, it's interesting how there's like a theme of, of characters, right? Like there's, he heroes and, and the odds and the odds of, of, of one to many and power to, to weakness or, or, you know, maybe it's classic David and Goliath, but with even more complications, which is
Ria (46:44)
Mmm. Mmm.
Penny Cottrell (46:46)
Strong female protagonist, that's how we...
Ria (46:48)
Yes.
Penny Cottrell (46:51)
Mm-hmm.
Ria (46:52)
Yes.
Yes. Yes.
Mary Schaub (47:02)
that even if everything is so much bigger than you, you don't care. You don't care or you have the strength to stand up. And ⁓ there's something that keeps speaking to all of us about that. All right, moving on to music. What song do you play to psych yourself up, Ria?
Ria (47:09)
Right, right, right.
Yeah.
there is a a Christian rapper named LaCray and there's like a song called nothing I can't do. I was labor negotiator. So I'm, I'm arguing with like these big guys
and that positive power That's been helpful for me.
Mary Schaub (47:32)
Penny, how about you?
Penny Cottrell (47:33)
And for me, it's Fly Away by Lenny Kravitz.
Mary Schaub (47:37)
Ria, your favorite comfort food.
Ria (47:40)
mac and cheese, but it's gotta be baked. It's gotta be baked, so.
Mary Schaub (47:43)
Everyone's very
particular about mac and cheese. Yeah.
Ria (47:46)
Oh yeah, I'm half Caribbean,
half Southern, so, but from Jersey. There's peppers, onions, a little bit of spice in there, but it's gotta be baked. And I don't, don't just let anyone just give me mac and cheese. Like this is a serious business.
Mary Schaub (47:50)
So is it gonna have some spice in there then? Is it gonna have a little bit?
I wouldn't bring mac and cheese to your house. I'd be too scared, I think.
Ria (48:05)
A fair, it's fair, it's fair.
Mary Schaub (48:08)
How about you Penny? Favorite comfort food.
Penny Cottrell (48:10)
mean, if you could put dessert as an entire food group, anything sweet, but really dark chocolate. Just give me all the chocolate.
Mary Schaub (48:17)
All right, Ria, what do you do to unwind, self-soothe, or remind yourself not to take life too seriously?
Ria (48:26)
I
Yeah, for me it's dance. I didn't dance when I was growing up. We just didn't have, I don't know if it's time, money, whatever for lessons. And in college, I promised myself I was going to be on the college dance team. I had no experience. All these girls who have been dancing since were three trying out for the team. said, I'm doing it. I stayed up like all night.
learning the routine. I did. I made the team. I made the A performing team. I was on it for two years. I was denied this growing up. I'm going to go for it. I'm just going to go for it. don't care that I'm 20 something learning this. I'm just going to go for it.
Was I the slowest person to learn a routine for the next two years? I sure was. but I love it. It's just a way of getting that energy out of your body. I can't explain it, but just, it just moves.
Negative energy just comes out of my body. feel like by the time I'm done with it and then you have a whole group of people doing the same thing with you. It's awesome.
Mary Schaub (49:23)
And you've moved from making it a performative thing and a leveling thing to now it's been repurposed to just, it just helps you bring joy out of your body. That's yeah. that's awesome. Okay, Penny.
Ria (49:27)
Exactly.
Freedom, joy and freedom. Yep, joy and freedom.
Penny Cottrell (49:37)
Well, I was gonna say hugging my husband and my kids, but I have two teenagers now who don't want to be hugged anymore.
Mary Schaub (49:43)
do you need to go to the shelter and get a kitten this weekend, maybe?
Penny Cottrell (49:44)
Probably.
Ria (49:45)
haha
Penny Cottrell (49:46)
So now it's trail running. I just get me on a good trail and get the adrenaline going and that's what does it for me.
Mary Schaub (49:49)
wow.
Wow, I'm so impressed and a little intimidated, both of you guys, because I was expecting Netflix with some Ben and Jerry's and your trail riding and dancing and all this other kind of stuff, but okay.
Ria (50:05)
I
mean, yeah, that means in the evening and late at night, it's something a little bit different.
Mary Schaub (50:09)
All right, what sounds fill your heart with joy, Ria? Sounds fill your heart with joy.
Ria (50:15)
It really is. I will say this is where the husband and kids come in. When we're out somewhere and we're doing activity and they're... I'm surrounded by boys. I have two boys. My husband, he is the oldest one I have. And when they're just silly and goofy and we're out as a family and there's lots of love and laughter, I don't think it's better. There's a better sound.
Mary Schaub (50:28)
That oldest boy.
Wow, it's Penny.
Penny Cottrell (50:39)
And this is another
thing that Ria and I have in common because I also have two boys and a husband who's a kid at heart and listening to them laugh, like a good hearty belly laugh, there's nothing that compares to seeing their joy. Watching a stupid movie or something, some raunchy
Mary Schaub (50:55)
How wonderful too, I felt like during COVID when we were all isolated, you could feel some of that stuff dry up. And now it's so lovely to hear people who are out and about and like being spontaneous and off the phone and interacting with each other. Also sounds like you guys have some beautiful families, which is not at all surprising based on knowing both of you. So that's really beautiful.
Ria (51:05)
Yeah.
Penny Cottrell (51:06)
Mm-hmm.
Ria (51:14)
I think that
was important for us, Mary, with the both of us, because I grew up in a pretty dysfunctional household as well. And my one son, my youngest, he'll do this little song, he'll say, Happy, happy. And I'll ask him more about what that is. And he's just like, I'm just so happy. Happy, happy. And like, I would have never sang that song at his age. I would have never been able to sing.
Mary Schaub (51:37)
Wow, no, I mean, and not only that, but
by the way, to be in touch with his inner felt sense and to be able and comfortable and confident to express it, like, cause that's one of the things I learned on my journey, which is like, I didn't have a connection between, this is how I'm feeling. yeah, I'm aware of I'm feeling frustrated or sad or happy. Like I didn't even have that connection. And then I am so in touch with it and I can answer and tell you what it is.
Ria (51:44)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Mary Schaub (52:03)
It's not, that's not something that everyone learns how to do and all families growing up. how, how cool that he, has that self-awareness. It's like very mature.
Ria (52:12)
I
think Penny and I just want to raise boys who are change makers and break some generational curses that we inherited.
Mary Schaub (52:22)
Can we also table, I'd love to have you guys back on and even do something on boys and maybe because, I mean, obviously I, you know, supporting strong women and all that, but we have a boy problem, a boy crisis in the country. And it sounds like your sons are remarkable and you're doing something right. And I think this is another opportunity for all of us to figure out how we can.
Penny Cottrell (52:34)
Yes.
Ria (52:35)
Yeah.
Mary Schaub (52:44)
be good friends, good neighbors, aunts, uncles, however we can show who need Max Brooks said that, there's no leaving people behind. it sounds like you guys are wonderful moms to wonderful boys.
Ria (52:53)
Yeah.
Mary Schaub (52:57)
Next, what is your spirit animal, Ria?
Ria (53:00)
Mine is a dragonfly. Look, literally, I've seen a dragonfly pops up at the mall. It's rare, right? So like, a butterfly pops up. yours is dragonfly too?
Mary Schaub (53:02)
⁓
I've had that too. No, but I mean,
I don't know. I haven't figured out this one, but I have had a dragonfly pop up at really intense periods of inflection.
Ria (53:13)
Eheh!
There's
something about it, because if it's a butterfly, you see them enough that you can't take it for granted. But something about a dragonfly, because it's the same thing, right? It's transformation, just like a butterfly, but it's more rare. So if it shows up, like one showed up in my house at an incredibly pivotal time, it was the middle of COVID, incredibly pivotal when I was trying to make a decision. And I was like, oh, in the middle of the night, I was like, oh, okay, all right. And it's, yeah.
Mary Schaub (53:38)
Wow.
Sometimes the universe sends signs
like pay attention, right? Like look here.
Ria (53:46)
Yep. Yeah, for me
Penny Cottrell (53:46)
Hmm ⁓
Ria (53:47)
it's Dragonfly. Yep. Yep.
Mary Schaub (53:49)
Okay, Penny,
Penny Cottrell (53:50)
Mine is an eagle because I like to be able to observe things and kind of have a bird's eye view of what's going on around.
Mary Schaub (53:58)
I moved out to Eastern Long Island in COVID. And actually we have eagles and hawks here. And the first time I saw one, I just felt like, am I in the Lord of the Rings? what, like, know, going, either being in the city or in suburbia, New Jersey.
Penny Cottrell (54:02)
Mm-hmm.
Ria (54:07)
hahaha
Mary Schaub (54:12)
You didn't see many eagles certainly is this real? And then you see their wingspan and like, I almost drove off the road. shocking. Beautiful animal, Okay, next up. Ria, what is your favorite quote?
Ria (54:14)
is true.
My favorite quote would be, I believe it's attributed to Winston Churchill, but it's when you're going through hell, keep going.
Mary Schaub (54:33)
It is.
Good one.
Penny Cottrell (54:35)
For me, it's a quote by Audre Lorde, you cannot use someone else's fire. You can only use your own. And in order to do that, you must first be willing to believe that you have it.
Mary Schaub (54:46)
Wow, so powerful, so powerful. All right, finally, last one, Ria, how do you wish to be remembered?
Ria (54:55)
I think the one word I would use is light. I was talking to Penny about this yesterday. We always say, hurt people hurt people, right? But we never say, heal people, heal people. Like there is an opposing force to that. the more that we can, I know it so like, be the light. But I'm gonna tell you, I've had days that were so hard.
And someone's random kindness that I will never meet again in this life has blessed me so much. And so it is important. And when we don't believe that being the light is important, that's when we get all this darkness, when we don't understand our power, no matter where we are on the social stratosphere. So for me, it's wanting to be remembered as light.
Mary Schaub (55:41)
That's beautiful.
Penny Cottrell (55:43)
And for me, my brother and I made a pact when we were younger that we would be the ones to break the generational cycle of abuse in our family. And now that I have two boys, I am very conscious of raising them to be men who treat not only women, but everybody with kindness and respect. So again, it's that ripple effect that we talked about earlier that we just hope to send the next generation off on a better foot than we had.
Ria (56:04)
Okay.
Mary Schaub (56:07)
And so
your ancestors are observing you and going, she did it.
Penny Cottrell (56:12)
I hope so,
I hope so.
Ria (56:14)
You
Mary Schaub (56:16)
Wow, what meaningful
and special answers and to really very special people. as you, know, one of things I'm just taking away is the way you live your lives is so self and other aware. Like you're walking noticing clues like, Ria, there's all these signs the universe is giving you. Penny, you're thinking about the history and then also the path forward and you're connecting the dots and understanding your specific role.
in that narrative and all these other characters that depend on you. I mean, this is a very different way of occupying space in the world. It's a much more sacred way. And you're now taking all of these gifts and experiences and expertise and you're putting something together for yourself and for other people. I mean, I'm grateful for your authenticity and the risks you're taking and that you're showing up in the world as helpers.
I've said on a prior show that Mr. Rogers, when he was bullied really badly as he, when he was a little boy, and I think his mother had said that he attributes his quote to his mother who said, whenever something bad's happening and you're scared, look for the helpers. There's always helpers. And I think that's what we're all trying to do having been scared children before is that now it's our time to walk in and be helpers to ourselves and to everyone else. And God knows we sure need more of us.
walking around like this. So I know many people are gonna take advantage and transform their lives through the Rewrite Workshops. And thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and yourselves with all of us.
Ria (57:38)
Yes, yes, yes.
Penny Cottrell (57:51)
Thank you, Mary, for this opportunity. you're doing this, you're doing the same work we are. So it's just as powerful as you're doing. And I think the more of us that come together and kind of coalesce in this community of doing this, the more it's gonna ripple out to people. So thank you for this opportunity.
Ria (57:53)
Well.
Right.
Thank you, Mary. Thank you so much.
Mary Schaub (58:10)
Thank you.
