Transforming Grief Into Purpose: Matt Fischer is Saving Kids from Addiction

In this conversation, Matt shares his journey of coping with the loss of his son and his mission to help other families facing similar struggles. The discussion covers the signs of addiction, the role of parents, the impact of grief, and the importance of community support in recovery.  

 Key Takeaways

💡Matt Fischer established the Evan Fischer Foundation after losing his 21-year-old son Evan to a heroin overdose on Thanksgiving Day 14 years ago.

💡He has personally helped approximately 700 children and young people overcome addiction through a model based on unconditional love and relational healing.

💡Drug overdose deaths have increased dramatically, from 3.2 deaths per 100,000 people when Evan died to 32.6 per 100,000 in 2022 (a 147% increase).

💡Signs of addiction can be subtle and progressive, with many parents not recognizing the warning signs until the situation becomes critical.

💡The foundation of recovery is human connection - "human beings heal each other" through unconditional love and support.

💡Matt works with approximately 50 young people at any given time, meeting them personally and following up to ensure their continued recovery.

💡Fentanyl has created an unprecedented crisis, with 70% of the young people Matt meets having recently survived fentanyl overdoses.

💡Parents can unwittingly become "master enablers" by not setting boundaries or failing to recognize signs of addiction.

 Compelling Quotes

🎤"Human beings heal each other. That is why we're here. And that's the gift I got from my son."

🎤"It's not what happens to you in life. It's what you choose to do about it."

🎤"Addiction is a lifelong disease. It lasts for your entire life. So you have to change your life and become empowered yourself."

🎤"Be here now... life is meant to be felt."

🎤"The message I got just looking at my son's body was, 'Hey dad, no one wants to go through this. You can do something.'"

🎤"I'm always working with at least around 50 people at a time... and I'm trying to keep them going."

🎤"You're not renting sobriety. Nobody can take it away from you. You're your own self-reliant human being."

Keywords

✅addiction recovery ✅teen drug addiction ✅fentanyl crisis ✅overdose prevention ✅parenting addicted teen ✅substance abuse help ✅addiction intervention ✅addiction support ✅grief transformation ✅purpose after loss ✅drug addiction signs ✅enabling behavior ✅recovery foundation ✅addiction treatment

Hashtags

#AddictionRecovery #TeenAddiction #FentanylCrisis #OverdosePrevention #ParentingHelp #SubstanceAbuse #GriefToGood #PurposeAfterLoss #RecoveryJourney #AddictionSupport #SobrietyJourney #MentalHealthAwareness #ParentingTeens #DrugEducation #HealingTrauma

🌟Links

• Evan Fischer Foundation Memorial Fund
• Stephen Fischer, Nature Photographer

🙏 -Thanks to

Disclaimer:

***The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.***

Credits: Written, produced and hosted by: Mary Schaub. Theme song written by: Mary Schaub. Mixing Engineer: Dylan Yauch

Contact: Tell us how your transformation is going. Email us at Shobukai_Shift@mschaubadvisory.com or leave us a voicemail at ‪(631) 371-3240‬ and we may play it on a future episode.

Website: M. Schaub Advisory (MSA)

** Shobukai Shift is a MSA Production **

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Matt Fischer and the Evan Fisher Foundation
• 2:46 Evan's Childhood and Early Signs of Struggle
• 4:23 Understanding Addiction: The Subtle Signs
• 5:53 The Role of Parents in Addiction
• 10:02 Coping with Loss: Matt's Journey After Evan's Death
• 11:59 The Foundation's Mission: Empowerment and Healing
• 21:32 The Psychological Impact of Addiction
• 28:13 Understanding the Early Signs of Addiction
• 29:58 The Intervention Process: Guiding Families to Recovery
• 31:38 Living in the Present: Healing and Acceptance
• 36:42 Proactive Parenting: Conversations About Drug Awareness
• 40:20 A Lifelong Commitment to Helping Others
• 41:25 The Power of Love and Purpose in Healing
• 41:42 Protagonist's Questionnaire

Transcript

Mary Schaub (00:10)

I am so grateful and excited because we have a very special guest today to talk about an important but difficult topic. Matt Fisher is the founder of the Evan Fisher Foundation Memorial Fund. It's a nonprofit organization helping children struggling with drug addiction. Matt established the foundation after losing his 21 year old son, Evan, to a heroin overdose on Thanksgiving Day 14 years ago.

Matt, thank you for being here and sharing your time and your story with us.

Matt Fischer (00:40)

you're welcome very much

Mary Schaub (00:42)

came to know you through a friend of mine who sadly also lost her son to a drug overdose just a few weeks before Thanksgiving of last year. And we've now reached this point in time where just about everyone has either been personally affected by this issue or knows someone who has. And just to put this in perspective,

Matt Fischer (00:51)

Yes, exactly.

Mary Schaub (01:04)

The year Evan died, there were 3.2 deaths per 100,000 people. And since then, rates have skyrocketed, increasing 147 % in 2022, which was the worst year on record with 32.6 overdose deaths per 100,000 Americans. So sadly what we're talking about is gonna be relatable for many families.

But before we get into this difficult topic, I'd love to know a little bit about you,

Matt Fischer (01:37)

Well, I am from California. Yep. Grew up in California and had a great childhood, great life. really nothing to complain about. Just, just really happy, right? Just super happy. I

I have four brothers, one sister, and have nothing but positive things to say about my childhood.

Mary Schaub (01:56)

Well, that's wonderful to hear. And a big family too. I was just talking to somebody who had seven other brothers and sisters. as an only child, whenever I hear people talk about having lots of siblings, I'm so jealous because I have this Brady Bunch fantasy in my head of what your childhood must have been like. But jumping forward, in 1989, you have your second child, Evan.

Matt Fischer (02:19)

Yes.

Mary Schaub (02:19)

I've seen

a picture of him on your website. It's a great picture. He's smiling and athletic young man. Tell me about Evan. What was he like as a boy and as a young man?

Matt Fischer (02:31)

Well, Evan was born in Berkeley, California at Alta Bates Hospital he was just a normal boy, right? He just, he loved to just do things and move around. was, he was active. As he grew up, he, he loved to explore, you know, ride his bike, take hikes around, explore things, play games.

Home Alone was his favorite movie. He loved to watch him make all the traps. And as a young boy, he would make traps around the house. When we lived in Southern California he had a little playhouse in the backyard and he just loved it. He loved to do things. He was very creative, you know. Just a nice, nice boy, really. And as he grew up, he liked to play basketball.

Mary Schaub (03:03)

Wow.

Matt Fischer (03:18)

he played a little bit of soccer, but that was a little bit too boring for him. He liked to play computer games. was really smart. He liked school, but he wasn't the studious one like his sister, but he still, he still did good, right?

He was doing good and he was just a fun kid. He liked to go to the movies. He liked to just explore. was a really nice boy. I I miss him a lot.

Mary Schaub (03:43)

when did you first realize that maybe he was struggling, maybe the first time trying drugs or when it started to become a problem, was there a certain moment or did it sort of sneak up?

Matt Fischer (03:51)

Hmm.

I mean, it snuck up because we didn't know that he was even experimenting with drugs, right? So this happens to a lot of families that I talk to. All of a sudden, their child's behavior is slowly changing. The child does not want to do their homework, right? Doesn't want to be with the family as much because the disease of addiction, even if the child is just smoking marijuana, it causes them to withdraw.

They tend to isolate with Evan, it just was really slow because, marijuana back in those days was not very strong. People didn't even know anything about it. his behavior went downhill, His performance in school went downhill, but neither Ann or I

knew that drugs had anything to do with it. Because the other thing about addiction is it becomes a huge secret.

Mary Schaub (04:51)

Well, and some of the things you were just describing, some of those signs also seem like they could just be normal adolescent behavior. Kids, start getting into teens and there's more social pressure, there's hormonal changes. So I can imagine, and I should say I'm not a parent myself, but it must be really challenging you don't wanna be overly suspicious

some of that might be normal teenage behavior. what are some things that parents might think the experience is like? Maybe they're waiting for some really big, scary behavioral changes to happen, but what I'm hearing you say is it's slow and it's subtle.

Matt Fischer (05:27)

It's slow and it's subtle, but in today's addiction world, which is what I help kids in, it's much quicker, it's much quicker because the drugs are so much stronger, so much stronger. The other thing about it is that no parent wants to believe their child is lying. You believe your child. They say, well, this happened at school.

I can't learn because of this teacher. I'm really frustrated with how they're presenting this material. They didn't teach me this. This is why I can't do it. And I think that no parent has the knowledge to know immediately, gee, there's something else going on, right? So I would say that it's hard for a parent. I've met with children.

that have lied to their parents. nine years. So there's no guidebook when you become a parent, right? You get a kid, the kid's, all of a sudden a little bit different. What's going on? Why is he different?

So it's really hard to figure it out. But once they start getting in trouble, then you're just, okay, what's going on? You're gonna hire a therapist, you're gonna meet with the principal, you're go meet with the teachers. But still, none of them are saying, gee, it might be drugs, back then. No one would say anything,

Mary Schaub (06:43)

I've heard some parents say, hey, don't drink and drive, call me at two in the morning. I'd rather you call me and be honest than you get in a car and drive. I can imagine that some parents might say, whatever it is, just don't lie to me. Because once that bond is broken it becomes normal,

You really start drifting away from each other, don't you?

Matt Fischer (07:03)

Yes, and that happens. Most families, I mean, most families, the child starts up lying and the parents just don't pick up on it. They just don't pick up on it or, they don't take it as seriously as they should. And so the disease progresses. they don't look at the kids that the child's hanging out with.

Mary Schaub (07:14)

Yeah.

Matt Fischer (07:25)

a lot of the sneaking around that goes on and it's really hard for a parent to detect.

Mary Schaub (07:31)

I can imagine it's always been difficult to be a parent. but these are even more difficult times and many parents want to fix some of the things that maybe they didn't get I've seen even in my own circle where parents are wanting to be friends. they're wanting to be cool or liked or relatable or accessible. But sometimes that

that can make things worse.

Matt Fischer (07:55)

Yeah, exactly. I sit down with a lot of parents, And that parents, I just give them this. I let them have that. I don't have a problem with that. I didn't have that. I can't have these rules on my child. They want to do this. They want to do that. So the parents are really enabling a lot of the behavior instead of being a parent. It happens, but they don't even realize they're doing it. Most people don't realize they're doing it at all.

Mary Schaub (08:22)

You've told me when we've spoken previously that sometimes parents can be master enablers. Is that what you're talking about here?

Matt Fischer (08:22)

They have no idea.

yeah, yes,

yes, yes. You know, they want to sleep over at her house, his house every weekend. They don't know that the house that they're going to, that the parents are allowing them to smoke weed and drink in the bedroom, if it's a girl, they're allowing boys to come over. and they're spending the night. And it starts to, spin out of control because the parents are unaware.

of what's going on.

Mary Schaub (08:58)

I've heard people say that, there's nothing worse than outliving your child, that it's an unimaginable grief. How did you cope in the months following Evan's death?

Matt Fischer (09:12)

I, I was devastated. as far as you can go down, I was there, right? I was just, I was just completely, you know, I was looking at pictures the other day of me, you know, at Evan's funeral and just the look on my face and just how much it took out of me. And so I was just on the ground, right? And

The message I got just looking at my son's body was, hey dad, no one wants to go through this. You can do something. the message from God too is, hey, you could actually help people. And not to say that I hadn't helped people in my life, but you know, I had a job, right? Paid my taxes to care of my bills and family. But.

really what was I doing? And if I could help one family not destroy their lives, then that'd be something. And so I decided to help people.

Mary Schaub (10:11)

I'm finding some solace in philosophy right now and the stoics of all people are making a comeback because I think people are trying to find ways of navigating the challenges of the world. there's a Greek philosopher who said, it's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters. And similarly, Viktor Frankl, who's the famous Austrian psychiatrist and Holocaust survivor, he said, between stimulus and response, there's a space.

And that's where we choose to react. And it sounds to me like you almost immediately knew I need to do something with this. And it really propelled you into looking at ways where you could help another family avoid going through what you had to go through.

Matt Fischer (10:55)

Exactly. mean, when you when you're helping a child that's in the disease of addiction, go through it and you're seeing all of the struggles all the struggles you go through mentally, every day, just worrying about it. and you see people financially just crushed.

by this, right? At the time that Evan went through this, there was no insurance coverage for addiction. Nothing. So everything that I paid for was out of pocket, just cash. you know, you just, okay, that's going to be 30,000. Okay, that's going to be 30,000. Okay.

Mary Schaub (11:22)

Wow.

I had no idea.

Matt Fischer (11:36)

So it wasn't until, much later that addiction started being covered by insurance,

Mary Schaub (11:42)

Wow. this is catastrophic affects the entire family in every possible way. I wanna get into your foundation and its work and keep me honest, but based on our conversation, I really took away from it is it's founded on these two really vital principles.

Matt Fischer (11:48)

yeah.

Mary Schaub (12:02)

of empowerment and relational healing. the research on trauma work is that healing is relational. You need another person, you can't read a book and it just clicks in your mind and you get it. And addiction is really the opposite. It isolates you from your emotions and your relationships and your responsibilities.

And my sense is that the work that you're doing is so transformative and powerful because you're bringing yourself, your authentic care and love for these kids to every interaction. Could you walk us through starting from that first desperate call or email that you might get from a parent looking for help?

Matt Fischer (12:41)

Yeah, I mean, so a parent, a parent could call me. I'll give you an example of a, of a kid, the kid had been through recovery. She was maybe like 19 years old. She had been through 26 recovery programs. Okay. So her mom was done with her. They had spent all that money, right?

all of her brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, she had stolen from all of them, right? Just stolen, she would go to a program, the second she got out, she would get high again. Why? Because she was still obsessed with it. She had no reason in her mind to quit, right? And I met with her and her father, and her father was the only one that still

would even talk to her. And her father said, okay, this is it, you know, this is it. And so I met with her for several hours and told her at the end of the day, human beings heal each other.

parents sometimes think They send their child to a place for 90 days, they're out, they're cured. No, addiction is a lifelong disease. It lasts for your entire life. So you have to change your life and become empowered yourself so you can beat the obsession. And people, you know, when I was doing this for about a year, someone said to me, well, Matt, how do

people really get sober? Do they take a pill? Do they get a shot? Do they lock themselves in a room and someone's white coat comes around and they take tests or they watch videos? I said, no. It's an overused phrase in our society. It's unconditional love because addiction is a life and death disease. So you have to empower yourself by being with people who are also trying to save their lives.

and provide you the unconditional love to have your back. And that's really what the 12 step and Narcotics Anonymous is all about, right? I'm going to a meeting where everyone here is just like me, but they love me unconditionally and they're gonna help me heal myself. So they're gonna have my back, right? And I'm gonna learn all these skills as a human being.

how to live my life and how to communicate. It's not done on a phone or an app, Too many kids are locked in on that. People as human beings heal each other. And then the family They're attending meetings on the outside understanding the disease and how they as parents can,

Mary Schaub (15:14)

Absolutely.

Matt Fischer (15:23)

stop enabling their child, How they can help their child heal, how they can figure out all the mistakes that they made that they didn't know they were making. Most people have no idea. They just don't know. And it's an incredible experience to just witness all these people I've seen over the last 14 years.

Mary Schaub (15:46)

I could imagine that some kids who have had some issues and they don't have that unconditional love. Maybe they have some family problems or maybe they have some self-esteem problems and then they get into drugs and become addicted and then their self-esteem is really, really low and then the drugs aren't certainly helping them feel any better about themselves. So by the time they're coming to you, I could imagine they're just starving for love and affection because either something was

originally traumatizing that got them into drugs to start with but then being just torn down in the throes of addiction has really done their self-esteem a lot of harm. And so it always seems to come back to this love, right? This is the cure for, the things that are ailing us.

Matt Fischer (16:29)

Yes, yes. mean, a lot of the kids that I meet today, and I'm going to say a good 70 % have almost recently died of an overdose on fentanyl. I mean, that's, 70 % of the people I'm talking to today have almost all recently died from an overdose on fentanyl. It's just such a massive crisis.

Mary Schaub (16:53)

from what I understand, it's just a minuscule amount of this substance could kill but they're in such a terrible place that they are rolling the dice every time they use.

Matt Fischer (17:03)

That's right, mean, and they build up a slight tolerance and they think they know how to take it. But the worst part is if someone gets sober, and they go out and try to do it again, it's a high probability they will just die immediately.

Mary Schaub (17:44)

I'm Generation X. when I grew up, there was the Just Say No campaign, and there was certainly lots of education about drugs. And certainly the harder drugs were usually emphasized, and heroin was always the worst. But now we're at a point in time where literally the first time you do it, could kill you and or addict you. And I'm not minimizing.

drugs from my generation but the stakes are just so high Some of what's out there is so powerful, something that really we've never seen before.

Matt Fischer (18:18)

That's right. teen opioid use is from 22 to 23 is up 41%. Marijuana is about flat. Okay. And then drugs like Adderall, They're up there Adderall and cocaine. So I meet with a lot of kids that are doing fentanyl, but they're also doing cocaine and they're trying supplement it with Adderall. And if they can't get that, then they

They buy math. And these are just ages from, 14 to 18. Just kids.

Mary Schaub (18:52)

Well, my understanding

is that some kids were getting Adderall prescriptions that didn't need it. Of course, there's always that. And it's even becoming a tool for studying in high school and college. And so some of this is seeping into, I assume, similar to the opioid crisis where more painkillers were prescribed in situations where you didn't really need it. Some of these drugs were created for really end-of-life palliative care.

not for I hurt my back or I was shoveling snow and my back is sore. This was known to be a highly addictive drug and it was for people in the last stages of cancer to relieve their pain, but it was never intended for regular use because it is so powerful.

Matt Fischer (19:36)

That's right. when I first started helping people, they were smoking weaker marijuana and stealing grandma's pills, right? They would go over their friends and neighbors house and they would go in their medicine cabinets and steal the pills. They would crush them up and snort them. They would sell them at the high school, then they would, move on to LSD or mushrooms, I just helped a kid the other day.

He had taken so much LSD and mushrooms. He went crazy at a baseball game. This is out in the Midwest. And he assaulted a whole bunch of people and ended up going to jail. And he got out and was having a hard time getting a job. And so I helped him. But just one episode like that could just destroy your life.

Mary Schaub (20:28)

it just feels like these kids are suffering and they're just want to take anything that they can to stop the suffering. Because this isn't just, want to have a good time. This just feels like I'm in so much pain, I can't tolerate it anymore.

Matt Fischer (20:43)

Well, in the beginning, was just to have a good time, right? That's what it was. But then the obsession builds up in your brain, Because these drugs change your brain. so you obsess about that feeling and you keep trying to get a higher high. that's why they're still able to self-fentanyl you'd ask, why would anyone take it? Because the high is so high, their brains have been rewired from it.

So it takes years to just come away from that and be able to stop that obsession. But that's the reason why they're doing it. They're just obsessed with it. They think about it all day long, all day long, every day. And so you can't just lock him in a room. I remember a boy I helped in Denver. He had locked himself in his apartment for nine months. He was a heroin addict. A heroin addict and people would deliver him food. But he came out after nine months.

Mary Schaub (21:29)

Wow.

Matt Fischer (21:36)

And he got right back on it.

Mary Schaub (21:39)

You know, I read Matthew Perry's autobiography I finished it just a couple months before he died. I listened to it on Audible so it was his own voice. And it occurred to me, he estimated how many millions of dollars he had put towards his various rehabilitations.

you just think this

Matt Fischer (21:57)

yeah.

Mary Schaub (21:57)

is one of the richest Hollywood actors, very, very successful, And he couldn't kick it with all of his resources and money that was available to him. And the way you hear him describe it he'd go look at houses and he would go into people's medicine cabinets, it was just really remarkable to me.

Here's someone that has every available resource and he can't kick it. That's really powerful.

Matt Fischer (22:25)

Well, the thing is he was also, I think he died of a ketamine overdose and there's doctors out there just pushing this. to cure what it ails you. And, you know, I've had people that I've worked with that were convinced that that was going to solve all their problems. Yet they found out that it destroyed their lives.

Mary Schaub (22:46)

I want to remark that 14 years you've been doing this work with the foundation.

Matt Fischer (22:51)

Yes, that's right.

Mary Schaub (22:52)

To date, you estimate you have helped 700 children and young people through your intervention, rooted in love and care and investment. And then that's not even the multiplier of all the families that were impacted and the friends of those 700 people and maybe other people they were using with. I mean, that's just, that's remarkable.

Matt Fischer (23:15)

Yeah, so every one of those people. Different than Matthew Perry, they decided that they wanted to live. Because you have to decide. I want to live what I've been successful at is convincing people I say look because Evan died. Here I am. Here I am. If that's not a miracle.

I don't know what is, but I'm showing up for you. Nobody's paying me. I'm not getting any money from anyone else. I'm not trying to make money from you. I'm not from the government. I'm just here to try and help you show the way and help you save your own life. Because you were created for good. Human beings help each other. That is why we're here. And that's the gift I got from my son.

And like I said, once I saw his body, go, that's it. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna help people.

Mary Schaub (24:10)

And I can imagine that now some of those people over 14 years, they may now be in a place in their meetings and their groups to then show up and be sponsors and help other people. And so you're, this great example. You're embodying the spirit of, let's take care of each other I'm going to help you. We're all going to go through periods of ups and downs in our lives. And if we.

we help each other out, then we know that someone's got our back when maybe we're down.

Matt Fischer (24:36)

That's right. That's exactly right. I mean, they have all kinds of jobs and businesses across the country, I three years ago, a dad wrote me a letter, just want to let you know that meeting we had in Kansas City, my son, whatever happened at that meeting, it was like a light switch. My son is now a lead mechanic for a NASCAR team, just bought his first house in Charlotte.

He's married, he has a family. I get letters and messages like that from people all the time. I'm still here, thank you.

Mary Schaub (25:12)

It's so moving and the reason I wanted to have you on the show is, that I feel we're all looking for ways to have purpose and meaning in our lives. And maybe we're all at a reflecting point,

we all are looking for something more. And the legacy that you're gonna leave and all these lives that you've touched, it's very moving. it's sad that it takes sometimes these kinds of situations to show us our strength and our character and our purpose.

you could have gone a different way. been thrown in despair and depression. could have dealt with this difficult experience in a way where you maybe disappeared. And because you didn't, because of your courage, you're now making a difference and making the world a better place.

Matt Fischer (26:04)

done the best I can, which is what I do every day, I show up for people. I show up for people.

Mary Schaub (26:12)

How many people are you working with at any one point in time because you're just one person. I mean, I just want for people to understand this foundation. I mean, yes, you have a foundation, it's a nonprofit, folks can donate, but This is all you,

Matt Fischer (26:16)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mary Schaub (26:24)

going

out to coffee shops and meeting people and flying around and driving around. How do you even do that logistically?

Matt Fischer (26:32)

You just do your best. mean, I used to fly around a lot and meet with people, but it's gotten so expensive to fly, so less flying. I'm always working with at least around 50 people at a time. and I'm trying to keep them going.

Mary Schaub (26:46)

Wow, that's incredible. You really are like an angel, Matt. You're an angel helping people. That's incredible. I want to turn to some practical advice because I think sometimes people just need to know how to take the first step. What are some common mistakes well-meaning parents sometimes make when they first realize their kid is caught up in drugs?

Matt Fischer (27:09)

that it's just a phase that marijuana is no big deal. And my child's not lying to me. Yeah. They got caught with vape pen at the high school, but they don't realize that that vape pen, that pure THC has already changed their child's brain. they need to stop it immediately. Cause a lot of high schools in America you can walk into people are just vaping THC.

No one's doing anything about it. So you've got to take action. The disease of addiction just grows progresses, right?

Mary Schaub (27:41)

you've mentioned a young woman who she ends up then finding someone who's gonna fund her addiction and she has to strip or she has to prostitute herself or people are stealing. And so then, if you don't catch it early, it can really get far away from you.

Matt Fischer (27:56)

I always ask kids, where are you getting the money to do this? And when they answer, the parents just their jaws drop. Right. Well, I steal at Walmart every week. I steal at Home Depot. I sell myself. I'm actually selling drugs on Snapchat. there's a huge lawsuit today against Snapchat over kids.

dying because they bought their drugs on Snapchat.

I've had kids tell me, I offered to the drugs on Snapchat. I meet the kids. I have my knife. I threaten them. I rob them. If they don't give me the money, I stab them. 16 and 17 year old kids.

Mary Schaub (28:34)

my God,

what's the process right after you meet? you're sitting down with the father and the girl and you're meeting in their living room or in a coffee shop. Where does the support go? What's the process for starting how do you intervene and what's the path toward recovery?

Matt Fischer (28:54)

the end result of the meeting is I convince them that this is it. This is, you've got to do this, you've got to commit to it. But I also try to get them to admit all the problems that have been a result of this, because most of them don't come clean with their parents. Well, I don't really want my parents to know anything. Well, they need to know everything. Every single detail.

So it's drawing out all those details. And then the old saying, the truth will set you free. there's relief Okay, my parents know how bad this is. And then just follow up, follow up. The kid gets into the program. The kid's doing good. But all it takes is the parents enabling them one time, you know.

Not watching and just letting them go. Well, I'm going to go to a couple of parties. They can't go to parties anymore.

Mary Schaub (29:47)

Right.

they want to change without changing. want to come clean without really coming clean, right? You want to sort of negotiate your way to still retain some of the things. I can imagine that what you're describing, the weight lifted, all that shame that they're carrying around and that's alienating and that's just keeping the addiction going and keeping them separate from their parents. So there's gotta be just a real...

moment of honesty and then a commitment to stay honest.

Matt Fischer (30:13)

Yeah, and the beauty of the programs, that I try to support them in they can go there and if it's younger kids, they can go there and have fun with other sober kids. Because they don't think that they could be sober and have fun, it's like, well, why should I ever get sober? I'll just do this till the end because I'm invincible, right? I'm invincible.

Mary Schaub (30:28)

Yeah.

Yeah,

and I can imagine at that early age, in fact, I was just listening to one of my favorite podcasters, Dax Shepard. He's an addict and he speaks very openly on his podcast about his addiction. he's a sponsor and talks to people about it, they're like, well, what does this mean? I can't have a toast of champagne when I get married or I can't take my son out for his first beer. So people feel like they're gonna lose something by committing to a life of sobriety.

Matt Fischer (30:39)

yeah.

Mary Schaub (31:01)

but that goes back to the one day at a time. can't think about all the things that you're not gonna have. You just need to understand that this is a disease and you need to live this way and you need to do it one day at a time and not worry about the future.

Matt Fischer (31:16)

Right. mean, people learn by living their lives in the present. that's how you heal yourself, too, in some of these kids, it's just incredible. The horrible things that have happened and that they've been through. They grew up in a criminal family. Right. Where everyone in their family was a criminal. but to heal yourself.

is living and working in the present. Where am I right now? And what am I going to work on today? Because the past will just sink you. It will sink you, even as a parent. know, after what happened to Evan, I could sit around and go, I would have, could have, should have done this. I would have, could have, should have done that. But all that does is just drag you down. So if you take every day and you do your absolute best in that day,

Mary Schaub (31:58)

Yes.

Matt Fischer (32:04)

tomorrow takes care of itself and you don't have to worry about tomorrow. what I've found, and one of my sayings is be here now, know, Sun Tzu, the famous, Japanese warrior. early in my career, I had a professor in business school that,

Mary Schaub (32:09)

That's so powerful.

Matt Fischer (32:26)

pounded that into my head. Don't ever panic about anything. Just be in the moment always. Be in the moment.

Mary Schaub (32:34)

That's so important. Literally, I have a book on my desk, which is Now Be Here, and it's by Ram Dass. I think this is so important just to pause on this, presence, because I've been talking to a lot of people about it. Our entire society right now is just built around dopamine and escape and numbing.

And I know we're talking about drugs today. We could be talking about social media or phones, food, sex, porn, it just feels like we're all collectively doing everything we can to not be in this moment and not feel what we're feeling. We're just all trying to escape. And yet we're losing so much the joy and the gift of being in the moment. There's so many things you

miss when you're not in the moment. miss body language, real genuine connection with someone. You miss seeing nature. I mean, we're robbing ourselves of really truly living. We're not living anymore.

Matt Fischer (33:29)

That's right. mean, and I remind kids when I was a kid, they had this show called ABC, why world of sports? Yeah, but it showed the agony, agony of defeat and the joy of victory. And as I tell all these kids, go life is meant to be felt. Okay, you're going to feel just horrible when something happens, but it's not what happens to you in life. It's what you do about it. Okay.

Mary Schaub (33:35)

I remember.

Matt Fischer (33:56)

So you're gonna learn something from that. So you're gonna learn from all the mistakes you made. And what did they do for you? Now here you are. They put you here. So now what? So now we learn how to live life right, peaceful, build on the skills we have, because I go, you can help me pay it forward and help somebody else. At the end of the day, once you achieve all this, you own it.

Mary Schaub (34:05)

Yeah.

Matt Fischer (34:22)

You're not renting sobriety. Nobody can take it away from you. You're your own self-reliant human being. light for all these other people.

Mary Schaub (34:32)

And you can withstand those feelings. they're gonna come up. we find difficult feelings so intolerable and we have no shortage of things to do to get rid of them or to avoid them, but we can withstand them. They can help us shape our character and build strength and resilience. There's lessons, that's what you're saying. There's these lessons and these difficult moments and experiences and that's where we grow. And we're denying ourselves of those opportunities.

Matt Fischer (34:56)

Yeah, because acceptance is a big thing that people struggle with. Well, this happened. Well, that happened. But you have to accept that it happened. It's OK. Because things are going to happen. Remember, it's not what happens. It's what you do about it. But you just need to think, rely on the skills that you've learned, rely on yourself, and learn. And so you're going to just keep building all the skills in that brain of yours.

Mary Schaub (35:09)

Yeah.

Matt Fischer (35:24)

and you're just going to keep building and building and building. So that stuff isn't going to bother you. And it takes time for people to do it. takes time. But once they know it, OK, I know that now.

Mary Schaub (35:38)

Wonderful. For parents who maybe have young children and they're hearing these stories and they're going to be worried about what happens when they're 10 and 11 and 12 and teenagers, do you have recommendations on just how to start to have conversations with your kids about this and maybe just some good practices in the family to make sure that people are being honest and that you know what's going on, there's transparency.

What should parents know?

Matt Fischer (36:10)

Well, I think parents, start talking to kids about the dangers of drugs, that they are dangerous, probably eight, nine years old. my own daughter, one of her biggest fears is her two children will get addicted to drugs somehow. So you have to educate people and parents have to educate themselves. They can't just say, this is no big deal. I mean, I talked to a lot of parents, well, gee,

This is no big deal. I let them smoke weed in the house. I didn't think it was anything. Well, now we know it is a big problem, right? So they have to educate themselves and they have to start at an early age about the dangers of drugs and why you shouldn't do them. And they shouldn't allow those things to happen in their own homes

Mary Schaub (36:55)

I had a friend If my friend was coming over my house, her mom would call to make sure that she was over my house. She would ask questions. who's gonna be there? what's going on?

Matt Fischer (37:02)

Exactly.

Mary Schaub (37:04)

I actually think on some level, kids want, need and understand the boundaries, right? I think there's another far side of it, which is you have the parent that doesn't ask and maybe doesn't care. And so, maybe parents should lean in a little bit more of expressing that care by being really hands-on.

Matt Fischer (37:23)

Well, think, yeah, exactly. I do think that parents have to have boundaries for their kids because the ones that have no boundaries, there's usually no good that comes of it. Right. And then there's the other parent that's so controlling. They control every single little thing. And then the kid rebels. Right. They just rebel. So it's just it's gaining the respect, but not being a friend, but being a parent, teaching your child, right. Teaching your child.

and communicating with your child because too many parents today that I meet, obviously I'm meeting people that are in trouble, right? There's no communication, zero. They don't even talk to each other.

Mary Schaub (38:22)

when you told me about what you were doing, something went off in my head. is probably my old business consulting mind that was like, you have something, this is clearly working, 700 case studies, you gotta scale this, And then I slapped myself and I just thought, no, you know what? It's working because he's doing it the way he's doing it. There's no overhead. You are making...

such impact and you're one person and so generous with your life that you're sharing with people. I wanted to put a plug in for your foundation and let people know if they wanted to donate that there's no overhead, no real estate, there's no programs. You are helping up to 50 kids at a time, helping them walk through this process and get in a good place knowing that it's gonna be a lifetime of.

of management and commitment, but you're getting them set up for success. I'm gonna the link to your foundation in the comments

Matt Fischer (39:12)

it.

someone asked me, well, how long are you gonna go? I go, as long as I'm on this earth, just keep going. Why not, right?

Mary Schaub (39:24)

Well, I think you're a force of good in an overwhelmingly difficult world.

the way you're doing it is love and care. And I think where it's really successful, where things are really clicking is where people feel loved and cared for. And talk about a force for good. I mean, this is pretty profound to be walking the earth and just trying to heal people with love and some investment of your time.

I mean, thank you for being a great example and inspiring all of us. we need to shine a light on some positive stories of people like yourself that have transformed grief or difficulty because we all have that power. We all have that capability and there's no excuses from where we start. We can, use what we have to do something better.

Matt Fischer (39:54)

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mary Schaub (40:16)

And as you're talking, I can see that you are living a life of purpose and meaning, and

that's a blessing, I'm sure, to you as well.

Matt Fischer (40:23)

Yep, yep, exactly. I mean, anybody can do anything. They just have to decide they want to do it. And then they just have to take it, as they say in recovery, one day at a time and just start making progress.

Mary Schaub (40:38)

Well, thank you so much for being here and talking to us about the foundation and what you're doing. I end the show with a segment I call the protagonist questionnaire. I look at each of us as both the author and the main character of the book that we're writing, right? And so that's where our agency and our power come is that we can change the story. We can write a different story and we can be the person that we really wanna be. it's also...

inspired by the wonderful James Lipton from the Actors Studio. He would interview folks and then he would end with a bunch of questions which lighten things up a little bit and also help us to know you a little bit more. So who was the first person who showed you your own power?

Matt Fischer (41:21)

Wow, that's a good comment. Let's see.

I think probably my dad, he was a teacher. He was an author he used to write books about how people could do better on exams so they could get a better job. So he had written, I think he wrote about, it was about 25 textbooks. And as a kid, he used to publish the books at home and we would sort the pages.

yeah, Yeah.

Mary Schaub (41:49)

What film do you find most inspiring?

Matt Fischer (41:51)

I think, you know, one of my favorite movies to watch as a kid was just James Bond movies, I think a film parents should watch is A Beautiful Boy, about the struggles that parents go through with addiction. It's a powerful movie.

Mary Schaub (42:06)

What is your favorite character from literature or film? Is that Bond as well?

Matt Fischer (42:11)

Probably Bond

Mary Schaub (42:12)

Do you have a favorite song that you play to psych yourself up?

Matt Fischer (42:17)

actually to psych myself up is probably a good cup of coffee and some silence.

Mary Schaub (42:23)

Well, and especially because you're, talking all day long. So silence is probably a very, very nice tonic after talking all the time,

How about your favorite comfort food?

Matt Fischer (42:33)

yeah, let's see. In the mornings it'd be like a really good greasy a giant breakfast burrito.

Mary Schaub (42:44)

What do you do to unwind, self-soothe, or remind yourself not to take life too seriously? Because you're doing a lot of heavy, serious work and you need to probably counterbalance that.

Matt Fischer (42:55)

going on walks is good, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mary Schaub (42:57)

I saw a dog in the background.

Matt Fischer (43:01)

Yeah,

going on walks, doing hiking. I like the mountains. If I'm in Arizona, going hiking in the desert or up in Lake Tahoe, hiking in the mountains. Or just taking a walk, period, just watching. And I don't ever listen to any music or anything when I take a walk. I just want to hear what's going on and observe. Because that's a big part of learning, is just observing and listening.

Mary Schaub (43:26)

Absolutely. was just talking about, I've started watching birds. Midlife crisis thing. have a big window in my office and I put a feeder out there and it's really remarkable what you see when you start paying attention.

Matt Fischer (43:30)

yeah.

Yeah. yeah.

No, it's really, great to birdwatch it's great. My little brother, Steve, he wrote a book on photographing California. He has all kinds of pictures of birds. He's like this incredible photographer. And yeah, he's just, yeah, it's StephenFisherPhotography.com if you want to check it out.

Mary Schaub (43:51)

wow.

Yeah, we'll add that link in the comments.

What sound fills your heart with joy?

Matt Fischer (44:03)

I think just the being outdoors and in nature and whether it's hearing birds or just the wind and just, you know, it used to be, until I hurt my knee, it used to be powder skiing, go through the mountains.

Mary Schaub (44:22)

what is your spirit animal?

Matt Fischer (44:25)

It's gonna be a hummingbird and a bear. Yeah.

Mary Schaub (44:27)

Is that right? it's so,

so fascinating. So that's my company's logo is a hummingbird. And I recently interviewed someone whose spirit animal was a hummingbird. She, she was in Mexico for some period of time. And she said in the Zapotec culture, they have a whole map of how to find your, your tona, your spirit animal and by your, your birth year. And, and hummingbirds are very profound.

Matt Fischer (44:34)

yeah?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mary Schaub (44:57)

creatures. They're very helpful and they're a symbol of light and love. So that's really remarkable that you said that. It's very apt for you, I think.

Matt Fischer (45:07)

Yeah, the story behind that too is, you know, after Evan died, Claire was, I don't know, she was at her mom's house in Arizona and she kept seeing all these hummingbirds, just tons of them, right? And then I had planted this, it's called a bee bomb. I don't know if you know, it's like a flower, but I planted just like one in the front yard in Tahoe. And then the thing just blew up and it was like,

Mary Schaub (45:27)

Yeah.

Matt Fischer (45:35)

you know, huge patch of bee bums all red. And then it became covered with hummingbirds every summer and they still come back every summer. But when I first started helping people, I was meeting with a girl, she was 17 and we were sitting outside at this coffee shop and there was this, I don't know, bush behind her and she was, you know, really struggling. And these two hummingbirds landed right there.

Mary Schaub (45:41)

how beautiful.

Wow.

Matt Fischer (46:03)

And

yeah, yeah, I mean, and that girl, you know, she picked herself up and she lived with her grandparents because both of her parents had died of drug overdoses. And so, yeah, there's been a lot of signs. So I still I love hummingbirds. Yeah.

Mary Schaub (46:17)

I'm a big believer in those signs. And I think that's another callback to why you need to pay attention, because there are these clues that are out there for us. Well, and finally, how do you wish to be remembered?

Matt Fischer (46:20)

Yep.

That's right.

I want to be remembered for, you know, it wasn't what happened to me in my life. It's what I chose to do about it. And then I never quit. I just kept going. I just kept helping people.

Mary Schaub (46:43)

Well, that's how I'm experiencing you and that's how I'm gonna remember you. I am so sincerely grateful for your generosity of time and spirit and for spending time to talk to us about what you're doing and your experience. I think you really are a hero and you're a force for good in an overwhelmingly difficult world. And thank you for transforming your grief into love for other people. And I think you are what the world needs.

Thank you so much.

Matt Fischer (47:12)

You're welcome. Thanks for having me on.